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why do sometimes people say things like "and it can take half a day to get someone up to speed with these tools if they haven't used them" half a day is like a

why do sometimes people say things like "and it can take half a day to get someone up to speed with these tools if they haven't used them" half a day is like almost no time at all half a day is just few hours, how is this a long time .. how is this any time at all makes me doubt myself a bit, am i too mediocre to think that way the previous line make more sense to me "It's taken me years to settle into this system" , now this is more like it

carbotaniuman 3y ago
I don't think it's half a day to get proficient, it's half a day to hack something half working together so they're unblocked and can do the other stuff they want to do.
- throwawaymaths 3y ago
  And then another half a day to get pissed off because you don't remember what settings are/are not in your venv and trying to exit and/or get back into the venv (assuming no prior experience with venv) Fundamentally venv breaks your conceptions of what a shell is through cleverness, and that's a problem for people who are new.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
codeflo 3y ago
Half a day to get something running that's a "one off" for you is insane. With a compiled language project, I'd download a binary. In Python, I need to reproduce the developer's setup. And I've yet to find two different Python projects where the official build instructions are compatible -- each one recommends a different environment virtualizer, a different runtime, different settings, and different C libraries that aren't part of the virtualized environment.
earthboundkid 3y ago
The thing that drives me insane about Python packaging is the degree of Stockholm Syndrome. PYTHON PACKAGING HAS KIDNAPPED YOU. YOU DON’T ACTUALLY LOVE IT. None of Go, JavaScript, or Rust require a half a day to figure out packaging. Don’t defend Python. Push for it to change or leave it behind.
mattgreenrocks 3y ago
Half a day is an eternity when it is makework. Trudging through old SO answers, bad docs, GitHub issues, overly enthusiastic blog posts by someone making a todo app, and, the coup de gras: hitting paywalls on the one tutorial that might help you. Factor in much higher rates for more senior devs and it amounts to a lot of waste.
Aerbil313 3y ago
This whole thread is a discussion of ease vs. simplicity. Easiness is subjective, simplicity is not. We should not compare tools in terms of their ease of use. There was a famous talk on this, maybe someone can link.

carbotaniuman 3y ago

I don't think it's half a day to get proficient, it's half a day to hack something half working together so they're unblocked and can do the other stuff they want to do.

throwawaymaths 3y ago
And then another half a day to get pissed off because you don't remember what settings are/are not in your venv and trying to exit and/or get back into the venv (assuming no prior experience with venv) Fundamentally venv breaks your conceptions of what a shell is through cleverness, and that's a problem for people who are new.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

codeflo 3y ago

Half a day to get something running that's a "one off" for you is insane. With a compiled language project, I'd download a binary. In Python, I need to reproduce the developer's setup. And I've yet to find two different Python projects where the official build instructions are compatible -- each one recommends a different environment virtualizer, a different runtime, different settings, and different C libraries that aren't part of the virtualized environment.

earthboundkid 3y ago

The thing that drives me insane about Python packaging is the degree of Stockholm Syndrome. PYTHON PACKAGING HAS KIDNAPPED YOU. YOU DON’T ACTUALLY LOVE IT. None of Go, JavaScript, or Rust require a half a day to figure out packaging. Don’t defend Python. Push for it to change or leave it behind.

mattgreenrocks 3y ago

Half a day is an eternity when it is makework. Trudging through old SO answers, bad docs, GitHub issues, overly enthusiastic blog posts by someone making a todo app, and, the coup de gras: hitting paywalls on the one tutorial that might help you. Factor in much higher rates for more senior devs and it amounts to a lot of waste.

Aerbil313 3y ago

This whole thread is a discussion of ease vs. simplicity. Easiness is subjective, simplicity is not. We should not compare tools in terms of their ease of use. There was a famous talk on this, maybe someone can link.