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No they shouldn't be discriminating based on citizenship. That unnecessarily limits their access to talent. There may be roles within SpaceX that require a secu

No they shouldn't be discriminating based on citizenship. That unnecessarily limits their access to talent. There may be roles within SpaceX that require a security clearance and therefore require US citizenships, but the discrimination should be applied based on the role and not as a blanket company policy.

justrealist 3y ago
It's really, really hard to silo technical information in an organization against bad actors. Like, do you really want to start papering over all your conference room doors so nobody can snap a photo of schematics while they walk by? Constantly police which Slack channels they are in? Make sure they can't look at a coworker's monitor? Security against espionage is a defense-in-depth design, in the real world you can't just say "oh we have a single barrier — they won't be on Top Secret projects. problem solved."
- guhidalg 3y ago
  > Like, do you really want to start papering over all your conference room doors so nobody can snap a photo of schematics while they walk by? Constantly police which Slack channels they are in? Make sure they can't look at a coworker's monitor? Yes. Have separate buildings, separate Slack instances (don't use clouds if you don't want information smeared across the world), badge access, etc... it's difficult sure but don't tell me our poor military industrial complex can't afford it.
  - Animats 3y ago
    That works for companies with a broad product range. Apple works that way. But SpaceX work mostly funnels into a very few products, all of which are of some national security interest.
  - justrealist 3y ago
    That doesn't cover what the DOJ is asking, because you can't separate closely linked roles into de-facto separate companies. Like, are you saying the people writing blog posts, the legal team, even certain engineering specialties, are not allowed to ever interact with the engineers working on satellite encryption?
  - remarkEon 3y ago
    Agreed, making it impossible to get any work done makes the likelihood that foreign agents steal anything of value very low.
  - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
    We're talking about SpaceX, not the military industrial complex. All US firms are subject to ITAR restrictions. I know that SpaceX has many government contracts, but you seem to be construing the company as some sort of public institution.
  - paulddraper 3y ago
    > military industrial complex Sir, this is a SpaceX
jstarfish 3y ago
Operation Paperclip may have served us in the 1940s, but the CCP in 2023 does not play by the same rules as Nazi Germany. Their playbook specifically exploits the vulnerability of our anti-discrimination policies by pressuring otherwise-upstanding employees into subversive acts once they secure sensitive positions. Compromised employees are never held accountable when caught at anything because they immediately run back to China to avoid indictment and trial. Using civilians as sleeper agents, and using our own policies against us as cover-- it's the perfect espionage program.

justrealist 3y ago

It's really, really hard to silo technical information in an organization against bad actors. Like, do you really want to start papering over all your conference room doors so nobody can snap a photo of schematics while they walk by? Constantly police which Slack channels they are in? Make sure they can't look at a coworker's monitor? Security against espionage is a defense-in-depth design, in the real world you can't just say "oh we have a single barrier — they won't be on Top Secret projects. problem solved."

guhidalg 3y ago
> Like, do you really want to start papering over all your conference room doors so nobody can snap a photo of schematics while they walk by? Constantly police which Slack channels they are in? Make sure they can't look at a coworker's monitor? Yes. Have separate buildings, separate Slack instances (don't use clouds if you don't want information smeared across the world), badge access, etc... it's difficult sure but don't tell me our poor military industrial complex can't afford it.
- Animats 3y ago
  That works for companies with a broad product range. Apple works that way. But SpaceX work mostly funnels into a very few products, all of which are of some national security interest.
- justrealist 3y ago
  That doesn't cover what the DOJ is asking, because you can't separate closely linked roles into de-facto separate companies. Like, are you saying the people writing blog posts, the legal team, even certain engineering specialties, are not allowed to ever interact with the engineers working on satellite encryption?
- remarkEon 3y ago
  Agreed, making it impossible to get any work done makes the likelihood that foreign agents steal anything of value very low.
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  We're talking about SpaceX, not the military industrial complex. All US firms are subject to ITAR restrictions. I know that SpaceX has many government contracts, but you seem to be construing the company as some sort of public institution.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  > military industrial complex Sir, this is a SpaceX

jstarfish 3y ago

Operation Paperclip may have served us in the 1940s, but the CCP in 2023 does not play by the same rules as Nazi Germany. Their playbook specifically exploits the vulnerability of our anti-discrimination policies by pressuring otherwise-upstanding employees into subversive acts once they secure sensitive positions. Compromised employees are never held accountable when caught at anything because they immediately run back to China to avoid indictment and trial. Using civilians as sleeper agents, and using our own policies against us as cover-- it's the perfect espionage program.