4 ms·

Seafood banned after Japan starts releasing Fukushima nuclear wastewater

18 points by devy 3y ago

EA-3167 3y ago
I always find it exhausting and disappointing when I'm confronted with the reality that so few people understand anything about radiation. The dose here is so phenomenally small, the half life so brief, the rate of dilution so high that this is a non-issue. Recently there was an article about a fish that was caught in the region with a dose of Cesium in the area of 18,000 Becquerels per kg. The media and social media take on that was essentially, "OMG that number is so big! How quickly would you die if you ate it?" If you ate a whole kilogram of that fish it would be the equivalent of eating between 4-5 bananas.
- gaudat 3y ago
  It's always politics. China has numerous nuclear power facilities alone the coastline releasing wastewater at a comparable, if not higher, radiation profile. And they always spin the point that the Fukushima has been in contact with the reactor core, but China's hasn't. That being said, I am still travelling to Japan and enjoying their 'radioactive' seafood.
- intrasight 3y ago
  None of the controversy is about the radiation China: We don't like Japan. Thanks for providing us cover for further sanctions. Fisherman: This is going to hurt us because of China's reaction. News media: Wow - look at all this controversy. Very newsworthy.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  The article didn't discuss what exactly was still in the water being released. Presumably mostly cesium and strontium, along with some of the longer-lived fission products. How effectively can these elements be filtered from the "treated" water, or are they mostly relying on dilution?
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    Cesium and Strontium can be filtered out with ion exchange filters. You do have contaminated resin to deal with but that can be buried in an appropriate landfill. (That kind of technology is critical to light water reactors because they need super-clean water with carefully controlled chemistry to not have corrosion problems in the core and in the heat exchangers.) The concern with that wastewater is Tritium which has a half life of 12 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium Tritium is difficult to control for various reasons, one is that it is an isotope of hydrogen so it cannot be chemically separated from ordinary water. Those other isotopes you mention, particularly Strontium, are particularly dangerous because are bioconcentrated in the food chain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomagnification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomagnification but tritium doesn't do that. If it is released in the ocean it is going to mostly diffuse into a very big mass of water and literally be a drop in the ocean compared to natural radioactivity. It is not going to be concentrated in the bodies of sea plants and animals so it doesn't pose disproportionate danger to the fuel supply. The thing though is that radioactivity is super-easy to detect, there are roughly 6*10^23 atoms in 3 grams of tritium and just one of those atoms going "pop!" can be detected and many forms of decay have a unique signature so even amounts that are small compared to natural background can be detected for people to have concern about.
    - SoftTalker 3y ago
      12 years doesn't sound too bad. It's already been 12 years since the accident, so half the tritium is already gone (unless the melted cores are still producing it?)
    - tfcata 3y ago
      [dead]
  - zerocrates 3y ago
    As far as I've heard, the vast majority is tritium, with the next most significant being carbon-14 (at vastly lower levels). Their filtering/treatment system doesn't work on tritium so I do believe for that it's simple dilution they're relying on.
- VoodooJuJu 3y ago
  People are right to be cautious, skeptical, and conservative. There's little upside to accepting some technocrat's "Just trust me bro! I know what's good you for!" sales pitch, and there's unknown, potentially unlimited downsides. The people prepping your avocado toast and sanitizing your wastewater have bigger priorities than learning about all the details and dangers of all of today's novel technologies, nuclear or otherwise, and you haven't earned their trust, so they're understandably not going to risk theirs or their family's lives. That's my rant in the general case of techno- and nuclear- skepticism. In this particular case, it's simply a political move by China.
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    Well, it would be one thing if the caution was from reading good information and acting accordingly. Usually its from chomping on the FUD, hook, line and sinker, which is unfortunate and difficult to correct even when confronted with factual information that challenges your preexisting emotionally driven notions.
- function_seven 3y ago
  One thing that spins my head around is the sheer number of different units related to radiation and radioactivity. I can't keep the damn things straight. Millisieverts and becquerels and curies. Rads, rems, grays. Roentgens! (NG,NT) Whenever I see a pop-sci article or video relating to radiation, it feels like one unit is chosen at random. I know this isn't the case. Each one measures a different thing. And of course we have to have a pair of competing units for each thing because that's how we do all other units. I had to go look all those units up before writing this comment.
  - yamazakiwi 3y ago
    During the Tohoku incident I was scanned for radiation and the tool showed measurements in millisieverts. Becquerels are new to me, I'm curious of the differences...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
elihu 3y ago
Banned by China. Probably more of a political/economic move than a real safety concern.
- brink 3y ago
  Unquestionably. They play the same manipulative games with Taiwan. They banned pineapple imports two years ago because Taiwan's independence party gained control.
- NotYourLawyer 3y ago
  China still allows street vendors to use gutter oil, so I’m not sure they’ve got their priorities straight.
  - cooljacob204 3y ago
    Lol no, they arrested a lot of people for this.
    - NotYourLawyer 3y ago
      Well, problem solved then.
      - true_religion 3y ago
        Isn’t that a differ issue? You said they “allow” people to use gutter oil but it seems that is false. It’s illegal but they don’t have perfect enforcement against crime.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  It's the pot calling the kettle black https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_in_China I enjoy unusual Asian foods but for me "made in China" is a warning label for foods and I understand that many Chinese people think the same thing. China has terrible problems with heavy metal contamination of soil and unlike tritium from Fukushima those elements get concentrated dangerously as you go up the food chain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomagnification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomagnification
bell-cot 3y ago
Other than "complete idiots", is there some reason why they couldn't have bought a surplus supertanker, and used that to dump the wastewater on a remote & ~lifeless abyssal plain somewhere? If properly mixed with brine, the wastewater would be dense enough to stay down there for ~centuries.
tommiegannert 3y ago
Meanwhile: > Switzerland will lift all restrictions on imports of Japanese food products from Aug. 15, Swiss Ambassador to Japan Andreas Baum has said. > The EU has announced that it will completely abolish import restrictions from Aug. 3. After Switzerland lifts its restrictions, there will be 10 countries and regions that still have them in place, including South Korea and China. https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/world/europe/20230801-126804/ https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/world/europe/20230801-126804...
throwaway2037 3y ago
The correct title: <<China bans seafood from Japan after the Fukushima nuclear plant begins its wastewater release>>

18 points by devy 3y ago

I always find it exhausting and disappointing when I'm confronted with the reality that so few people understand anything about radiation. The dose here is so phenomenally small, the half life so brief, the rate of dilution so high that this is a non-issue. Recently there was an article about a fish that was caught in the region with a dose of Cesium in the area of 18,000 Becquerels per kg. The media and social media take on that was essentially, "OMG that number is so big! How quickly would you die if you ate it?" If you ate a whole kilogram of that fish it would be the equivalent of eating between 4-5 bananas.

gaudat 3y ago
It's always politics. China has numerous nuclear power facilities alone the coastline releasing wastewater at a comparable, if not higher, radiation profile. And they always spin the point that the Fukushima has been in contact with the reactor core, but China's hasn't. That being said, I am still travelling to Japan and enjoying their 'radioactive' seafood.
intrasight 3y ago
None of the controversy is about the radiation China: We don't like Japan. Thanks for providing us cover for further sanctions. Fisherman: This is going to hurt us because of China's reaction. News media: Wow - look at all this controversy. Very newsworthy.
SoftTalker 3y ago
The article didn't discuss what exactly was still in the water being released. Presumably mostly cesium and strontium, along with some of the longer-lived fission products. How effectively can these elements be filtered from the "treated" water, or are they mostly relying on dilution?
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  Cesium and Strontium can be filtered out with ion exchange filters. You do have contaminated resin to deal with but that can be buried in an appropriate landfill. (That kind of technology is critical to light water reactors because they need super-clean water with carefully controlled chemistry to not have corrosion problems in the core and in the heat exchangers.) The concern with that wastewater is Tritium which has a half life of 12 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium Tritium is difficult to control for various reasons, one is that it is an isotope of hydrogen so it cannot be chemically separated from ordinary water. Those other isotopes you mention, particularly Strontium, are particularly dangerous because are bioconcentrated in the food chain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomagnification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomagnification but tritium doesn't do that. If it is released in the ocean it is going to mostly diffuse into a very big mass of water and literally be a drop in the ocean compared to natural radioactivity. It is not going to be concentrated in the bodies of sea plants and animals so it doesn't pose disproportionate danger to the fuel supply. The thing though is that radioactivity is super-easy to detect, there are roughly 6*10^23 atoms in 3 grams of tritium and just one of those atoms going "pop!" can be detected and many forms of decay have a unique signature so even amounts that are small compared to natural background can be detected for people to have concern about.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    12 years doesn't sound too bad. It's already been 12 years since the accident, so half the tritium is already gone (unless the melted cores are still producing it?)
  - tfcata 3y ago
    [dead]
- zerocrates 3y ago
  As far as I've heard, the vast majority is tritium, with the next most significant being carbon-14 (at vastly lower levels). Their filtering/treatment system doesn't work on tritium so I do believe for that it's simple dilution they're relying on.
VoodooJuJu 3y ago
People are right to be cautious, skeptical, and conservative. There's little upside to accepting some technocrat's "Just trust me bro! I know what's good you for!" sales pitch, and there's unknown, potentially unlimited downsides. The people prepping your avocado toast and sanitizing your wastewater have bigger priorities than learning about all the details and dangers of all of today's novel technologies, nuclear or otherwise, and you haven't earned their trust, so they're understandably not going to risk theirs or their family's lives. That's my rant in the general case of techno- and nuclear- skepticism. In this particular case, it's simply a political move by China.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  Well, it would be one thing if the caution was from reading good information and acting accordingly. Usually its from chomping on the FUD, hook, line and sinker, which is unfortunate and difficult to correct even when confronted with factual information that challenges your preexisting emotionally driven notions.
function_seven 3y ago
One thing that spins my head around is the sheer number of different units related to radiation and radioactivity. I can't keep the damn things straight. Millisieverts and becquerels and curies. Rads, rems, grays. Roentgens! (NG,NT) Whenever I see a pop-sci article or video relating to radiation, it feels like one unit is chosen at random. I know this isn't the case. Each one measures a different thing. And of course we have to have a pair of competing units for each thing because that's how we do all other units. I had to go look all those units up before writing this comment.
- yamazakiwi 3y ago
  During the Tohoku incident I was scanned for radiation and the tool showed measurements in millisieverts. Becquerels are new to me, I'm curious of the differences...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

elihu 3y ago

Banned by China. Probably more of a political/economic move than a real safety concern.

brink 3y ago
Unquestionably. They play the same manipulative games with Taiwan. They banned pineapple imports two years ago because Taiwan's independence party gained control.
NotYourLawyer 3y ago
China still allows street vendors to use gutter oil, so I’m not sure they’ve got their priorities straight.
- cooljacob204 3y ago
  Lol no, they arrested a lot of people for this.
  - NotYourLawyer 3y ago
    Well, problem solved then.
    - true_religion 3y ago
      Isn’t that a differ issue? You said they “allow” people to use gutter oil but it seems that is false. It’s illegal but they don’t have perfect enforcement against crime.
PaulHoule 3y ago
It's the pot calling the kettle black https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_in_China I enjoy unusual Asian foods but for me "made in China" is a warning label for foods and I understand that many Chinese people think the same thing. China has terrible problems with heavy metal contamination of soil and unlike tritium from Fukushima those elements get concentrated dangerously as you go up the food chain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomagnification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomagnification

bell-cot 3y ago

Other than "complete idiots", is there some reason why they couldn't have bought a surplus supertanker, and used that to dump the wastewater on a remote & ~lifeless abyssal plain somewhere? If properly mixed with brine, the wastewater would be dense enough to stay down there for ~centuries.

tommiegannert 3y ago

Meanwhile: > Switzerland will lift all restrictions on imports of Japanese food products from Aug. 15, Swiss Ambassador to Japan Andreas Baum has said. > The EU has announced that it will completely abolish import restrictions from Aug. 3. After Switzerland lifts its restrictions, there will be 10 countries and regions that still have them in place, including South Korea and China. https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/world/europe/20230801-126804/ https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/world/europe/20230801-126804...

throwaway2037 3y ago

The correct title: <<China bans seafood from Japan after the Fukushima nuclear plant begins its wastewater release>>