6 ms·

It's not just the 'non tech-savvy' that are failed by this, it is all of us. I don't want to be required to take my smartphone everywhere I go and to make sure

It's not just the 'non tech-savvy' that are failed by this, it is all of us. I don't want to be required to take my smartphone everywhere I go and to make sure the battery doesn't die. There is no excuse for it in most cases. And as for Ryanair requiring a printout, that's just a way of forcing users to pay more. When I last flew with SAS from Trondheim, many years ago there were no check-in staff. I put the credit card I had used to book the ticket with in a reader, it spat out a label that I attached to my bag which I then placed on the belt. I used the same card to gain entry to air side. I used the same card to enter the corral by the actual gate. Finally when boarding there was a person there to attend to any problems and that was it. No need for apps, no paper.

nicbou 3y ago
These systems also regularly fail for travellers who don't fit the assumptions developers make about users. For instance the app might not be available on the app store for foreign users, or might require a local phone number, or might enforce a format that does not match the user's data. They frequently fail for groups who complete a task together, or people who act on behalf of someone else.
scarface_74 3y ago
[flagged]
- ethanbond 3y ago
  > Why should the world bend to your desires? Is this your response when anyone shares their opinion on a topic? Like why should anyone say anything if this is considered a meaningful response? Anyway I am doubtful they are pushing for a credit card-governed world.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    It's called free will. We all are free to make our own life choices and accept the consequences of those choices. We are not free to impose our choices on others.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      What are you doing here trying to convince people of your views then?
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        I'm doing just the opposite. I support anyone to have any views that they want. It's not the responsibility of businesses to conform to their views.
        Apocryphon 3y ago
        The businesses are imposing their choices on others.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Are the businesses forcing people to buy their goods and services?
        Apocryphon 3y ago
        I don't know, I didn't read the article.
- earthnail 3y ago
  I don’t have to worry about my credit card’s battery. And I don’t have to buy a new one for several $100 every few years. Credit cards aren’t ideal, but there are also debit cards and they work just as well. Of course, there are different tradeoffs: what if you paid with a different card than the one in your pocket? Still, Ryanair requiring printouts is a joke.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > And I don’t have to buy a new one for several $100 every few years. You are free to go on Amazon and buy an unlocked cheap Android phone for $30.
    - iksm 3y ago
      Yah super, running apps made by trainees or websites that takes ages to even render, if not, filled with third party assets and trackers, as well as depending running whole cloud infrastructures just to enter a museum or to see a restaurant menu L O L. I think you don't even realize how stupid it is. PS: I did not ever gave 1 cent to Amazon, feel "free" to do so as well.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        Well choose where you want to buy cheap unlocked Android phones from. Do you not think it takes an entire "cloud infrastructure" for the museum to take credit cards?
        iksm 3y ago
        I think online ticketing systems are fine, and yeah they mostly require to run on a robust infrastructure. Knowing the trends, that certainly would depend on big-tech cloud infrastructure. I don't care unless this become a mandatory de-facto standard to access public places. Hopefully yet it is not, and people would reject that if that would become an obligation. But there's a chance that our children would not even know this is bare dumb cause it would be the norm.
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  > Why should the world bend to your desires? Why are you asking this? The OP just stated their view. They stated battery drain being an issue and that they dislike the requirement to have a phone on you at all times. I can relate to that especially with the size and weight of today's phones. There is also the issue of being locatable. > "I don't want to inconvenience myself by having to have my phone. But I don't mind if others are inconvenienced by being required to have a credit card" They never said they want others to be required to have a credit card. You are making this up. Why don't companies accept both?
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Does he not make sure he has enough gas in his car before he drives somewhere? Enough money in his account before he orders at a restaurant? There are certain things that modern society can expect from people. If he decides to go against that, that's on him. If he is posting to HN, obviously he isn't opposed to technology,
    - master-lincoln 3y ago
      I see the need for gas for driving somewhere or money to pay something. But I don't see the need for a phone when I want to pay for entering a museum (or a plane for that matter)
    - zabzonk 3y ago
      It's not "obvious" that he is not opposed to bad and harmful technologies.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        So is his computer less harmful than his cellphone?
    - tharmas 3y ago
      Its a service. The service should be designed to fit the customer, not the other way around. Clearly, the people who designed the system have the same design philosophy as you. That is the problem.
- pbourke 3y ago
  1. Not all cellphones are smartphones, and not all smartphones are capable of running a given app 2. Presumably a debit card on the same network would work just as well. What’s the credit + debit card penetration rate?
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Okay smart phone penetration rate is 91% https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/how-many-americans-have-smartphones#:~:text=The%20latest%20US%20cell%20phone,number%20has%20surged%20to%2091%25 https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/how-many-americans-have-sm.... 4.5% of the US is "unbanked". So now we are talking about 4.5% vs 9% and the overlap is probably small. And before you say poor people probably don't have smart phones. 94% of homeless people have cell phones. The percentage of poor people with cell phones is probably higher. https://priceschool.usc.edu/news/homeless-los-angeles-cell-phone-survey/#:~:text=Previous%20research%20from%20Henwood%20suggested,free%20devices%20through%20government%20programs https://priceschool.usc.edu/news/homeless-los-angeles-cell-p.... (No I'm not judging homeless people for having a life line for survival)
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  > Why should the world bend to your desires? Because I'm the one spending the money. If you make it harder for me to spend money with you, I'm going to spend less money with you. > Cell phone penetration in the US - 97$ > Credit card pentration in the US - 70% Sure. But most credit cards don't have batteries that die.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > Because I'm the one spending the money. If you make it harder for me to spend money with you, I'm going to spend less money with you. And I as a business owner must be okay with it. See how freedom of choice works? We can both choose which parameters we operate within.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      If that's your argument, then why, in your other posts on this thread, are you so strongly against letting people choose to not use the phone apps?
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        They can choose not to use their phone apps and if the business in question doesn't allow any other method to use their services, they have both made their choices. That's just like Uber has chosen not to have a call dispatch center where you can call them if you want a ride.
- iksm 3y ago
  > Why should the world bend to your desires? Why should the world bend to your desires? Why should we accept a smartphone-dependent society ? Because it pleases you or because this is imposed by the top and you just accept it, then find all the other just being morons ? :)
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > Why should we accept a smartphone-dependent society You don't have to. The Amish haven't. I have no problem with them making that choice either.
    - iksm 3y ago
      So for you, the future will be to be either Amish or google implanted ? Or would there be any place in between for "normal" people ? Yeah those are both extreme points. But this is really violent to wish no middle in between.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        Yes 90%+ including 94% of the homeless population have a cell phone. You are making the choice to be in the minority of people who choose to inconvenience yourself. The Amish have the courage of their convictions and never felt the need to ask the government to force their beliefs on other people.
        iksm 3y ago
        However, having smartphones does not mean to go toward and accepting more and more situations where they do become mandatory to enter to public places. As we expressed before in this topic, applications, websites and their back-ends depends themselves on lots of other things to be reliable. Not even considering security issues or privacy abuses that are reportedly common. This is not an individual problem, it's a society choice that does not seems to be advised. I'm not against adding methods for accessing such places with some computer connected to a network just like smartphone, smart watches and stuff... If this can be useful, handy and neutral as tools should stay. Still, I personally don't wish to find myself or anyone reduced, worse, denied by not wearing a specific smartphone (that would even maybe require to accept and sign many private third party conditions) for enjoying a direct interaction with "normal" people having a restaurant or a museum for example. I would consider extreme to think that, because "everyone have a smartphone" then it should be normal to require that for everything. Implying (not blindly) accepting whole bunches of consequences (that most people seems to want to ignore because otherwise they would feel reduced or rejected) coming with. Perhaps we don't see the same reality under the same prism and education. This is is not some point. It's just to say... What I sadly observe in general is a total lack of competence or understanding of the information technologies, actors and implications. And outside the fact it is another great source of pollution, they also represent a good opportunity for locking down people and tracking them from bad actors intentions. So, I wish that it won't be misused or forced, particularly in situations were this wipes-out the freedom to do simple things that works fine, in any ways. Just what's in my mind if we would ask me my opinion. Thanks for your exchanges there.
cmiles74 3y ago
The parking app is the worst, IMHO. I can see the parking space but I have to figure out which parking app works with this particular lot and then hope I don't get a ticket.

nicbou 3y ago

These systems also regularly fail for travellers who don't fit the assumptions developers make about users. For instance the app might not be available on the app store for foreign users, or might require a local phone number, or might enforce a format that does not match the user's data. They frequently fail for groups who complete a task together, or people who act on behalf of someone else.

scarface_74 3y ago

[flagged]

ethanbond 3y ago
> Why should the world bend to your desires? Is this your response when anyone shares their opinion on a topic? Like why should anyone say anything if this is considered a meaningful response? Anyway I am doubtful they are pushing for a credit card-governed world.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  It's called free will. We all are free to make our own life choices and accept the consequences of those choices. We are not free to impose our choices on others.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    What are you doing here trying to convince people of your views then?
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      I'm doing just the opposite. I support anyone to have any views that they want. It's not the responsibility of businesses to conform to their views.
      - Apocryphon 3y ago
        The businesses are imposing their choices on others.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Are the businesses forcing people to buy their goods and services?
        Apocryphon 3y ago
        I don't know, I didn't read the article.
earthnail 3y ago
I don’t have to worry about my credit card’s battery. And I don’t have to buy a new one for several $100 every few years. Credit cards aren’t ideal, but there are also debit cards and they work just as well. Of course, there are different tradeoffs: what if you paid with a different card than the one in your pocket? Still, Ryanair requiring printouts is a joke.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > And I don’t have to buy a new one for several $100 every few years. You are free to go on Amazon and buy an unlocked cheap Android phone for $30.
  - iksm 3y ago
    Yah super, running apps made by trainees or websites that takes ages to even render, if not, filled with third party assets and trackers, as well as depending running whole cloud infrastructures just to enter a museum or to see a restaurant menu L O L. I think you don't even realize how stupid it is. PS: I did not ever gave 1 cent to Amazon, feel "free" to do so as well.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Well choose where you want to buy cheap unlocked Android phones from. Do you not think it takes an entire "cloud infrastructure" for the museum to take credit cards?
      - iksm 3y ago
        I think online ticketing systems are fine, and yeah they mostly require to run on a robust infrastructure. Knowing the trends, that certainly would depend on big-tech cloud infrastructure. I don't care unless this become a mandatory de-facto standard to access public places. Hopefully yet it is not, and people would reject that if that would become an obligation. But there's a chance that our children would not even know this is bare dumb cause it would be the norm.
master-lincoln 3y ago
> Why should the world bend to your desires? Why are you asking this? The OP just stated their view. They stated battery drain being an issue and that they dislike the requirement to have a phone on you at all times. I can relate to that especially with the size and weight of today's phones. There is also the issue of being locatable. > "I don't want to inconvenience myself by having to have my phone. But I don't mind if others are inconvenienced by being required to have a credit card" They never said they want others to be required to have a credit card. You are making this up. Why don't companies accept both?
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Does he not make sure he has enough gas in his car before he drives somewhere? Enough money in his account before he orders at a restaurant? There are certain things that modern society can expect from people. If he decides to go against that, that's on him. If he is posting to HN, obviously he isn't opposed to technology,
  - master-lincoln 3y ago
    I see the need for gas for driving somewhere or money to pay something. But I don't see the need for a phone when I want to pay for entering a museum (or a plane for that matter)
  - zabzonk 3y ago
    It's not "obvious" that he is not opposed to bad and harmful technologies.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      So is his computer less harmful than his cellphone?
  - tharmas 3y ago
    Its a service. The service should be designed to fit the customer, not the other way around. Clearly, the people who designed the system have the same design philosophy as you. That is the problem.
pbourke 3y ago
1. Not all cellphones are smartphones, and not all smartphones are capable of running a given app 2. Presumably a debit card on the same network would work just as well. What’s the credit + debit card penetration rate?
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Okay smart phone penetration rate is 91% https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/how-many-americans-have-smartphones#:~:text=The%20latest%20US%20cell%20phone,number%20has%20surged%20to%2091%25 https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/how-many-americans-have-sm.... 4.5% of the US is "unbanked". So now we are talking about 4.5% vs 9% and the overlap is probably small. And before you say poor people probably don't have smart phones. 94% of homeless people have cell phones. The percentage of poor people with cell phones is probably higher. https://priceschool.usc.edu/news/homeless-los-angeles-cell-phone-survey/#:~:text=Previous%20research%20from%20Henwood%20suggested,free%20devices%20through%20government%20programs https://priceschool.usc.edu/news/homeless-los-angeles-cell-p.... (No I'm not judging homeless people for having a life line for survival)
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
> Why should the world bend to your desires? Because I'm the one spending the money. If you make it harder for me to spend money with you, I'm going to spend less money with you. > Cell phone penetration in the US - 97$ > Credit card pentration in the US - 70% Sure. But most credit cards don't have batteries that die.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > Because I'm the one spending the money. If you make it harder for me to spend money with you, I'm going to spend less money with you. And I as a business owner must be okay with it. See how freedom of choice works? We can both choose which parameters we operate within.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    If that's your argument, then why, in your other posts on this thread, are you so strongly against letting people choose to not use the phone apps?
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      They can choose not to use their phone apps and if the business in question doesn't allow any other method to use their services, they have both made their choices. That's just like Uber has chosen not to have a call dispatch center where you can call them if you want a ride.
iksm 3y ago
> Why should the world bend to your desires? Why should the world bend to your desires? Why should we accept a smartphone-dependent society ? Because it pleases you or because this is imposed by the top and you just accept it, then find all the other just being morons ? :)
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > Why should we accept a smartphone-dependent society You don't have to. The Amish haven't. I have no problem with them making that choice either.
  - iksm 3y ago
    So for you, the future will be to be either Amish or google implanted ? Or would there be any place in between for "normal" people ? Yeah those are both extreme points. But this is really violent to wish no middle in between.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Yes 90%+ including 94% of the homeless population have a cell phone. You are making the choice to be in the minority of people who choose to inconvenience yourself. The Amish have the courage of their convictions and never felt the need to ask the government to force their beliefs on other people.
      - iksm 3y ago
        However, having smartphones does not mean to go toward and accepting more and more situations where they do become mandatory to enter to public places. As we expressed before in this topic, applications, websites and their back-ends depends themselves on lots of other things to be reliable. Not even considering security issues or privacy abuses that are reportedly common. This is not an individual problem, it's a society choice that does not seems to be advised. I'm not against adding methods for accessing such places with some computer connected to a network just like smartphone, smart watches and stuff... If this can be useful, handy and neutral as tools should stay. Still, I personally don't wish to find myself or anyone reduced, worse, denied by not wearing a specific smartphone (that would even maybe require to accept and sign many private third party conditions) for enjoying a direct interaction with "normal" people having a restaurant or a museum for example. I would consider extreme to think that, because "everyone have a smartphone" then it should be normal to require that for everything. Implying (not blindly) accepting whole bunches of consequences (that most people seems to want to ignore because otherwise they would feel reduced or rejected) coming with. Perhaps we don't see the same reality under the same prism and education. This is is not some point. It's just to say... What I sadly observe in general is a total lack of competence or understanding of the information technologies, actors and implications. And outside the fact it is another great source of pollution, they also represent a good opportunity for locking down people and tracking them from bad actors intentions. So, I wish that it won't be misused or forced, particularly in situations were this wipes-out the freedom to do simple things that works fine, in any ways. Just what's in my mind if we would ask me my opinion. Thanks for your exchanges there.

cmiles74 3y ago

The parking app is the worst, IMHO. I can see the parking space but I have to figure out which parking app works with this particular lot and then hope I don't get a ticket.