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> There is no physical or mental disability preventing people using modern technology. It's absolutely abhorrent that you would begin to think this. There are

by alexb_ 3y ago

> There is no physical or mental disability preventing people using modern technology. It's absolutely abhorrent that you would begin to think this. There are plenty of disabilities that don't allow people to use technology. Not to mention, there are plenty of people who are religiously or ideologically against new technology. Making it a REQUIREMENT to do anything is absolutely not something we should be promoting. To add on to this, in both of your examples, none of those two things were required. You could get a friend to call with you, or go to the place to set up an appointment. Literacy is something we already recognize as extremely important and we absolutely do have accomodations provided for people who are illiterate. Asking people to "be responsible for their actions or lack of them" when you talk about disability is just blatantly incorrect. Remember, we're all just temporarily abled. Some day you will grow old and have the inability to interact with modern technology. I bet then you will be very upset if everything started requiring it.

scarface_74 3y ago
> Not to mention, there are plenty of people who are religiously or ideologically against new technology. Why should I go out of my way because someone made a choice to inconvenience themselves? This is just as bad as all of the bans on alcohol sales on Sunday because of religion.
- Mordisquitos 3y ago
  > Why should I go out of my way because someone made a choice to inconvenience themselves? Why should I go out of my way because someone decided that I now must own a smartphone (often iPhone or Google Play required) to do things that we all used to be able to do before without one? This is just as bad as adding unjustified bureaucratic and procedural requirements to actions that used to be able to be done freely and without hindrance.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > Why should I go out of my way because someone decided that I now must own a smartphone (often iPhone or Google Play required) to do things that we all used to be able to do before without one? You don't. You are free to make any life choices you want and suffer the consequences of your life choices as long as they don't affect me.
    - uoaei 3y ago
      It's hard to believe you are really this "consequences for thee but not for me" about life in general, considering your comment just up-thread, but I suppose it makes sense that such people would exist and be so self-uncritical as to proudly and openly pronounce such beliefs.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        If I choose not to sell a product or service in a method that some subset of customers don't find acceptable, I'm losing some amount of revenue. I must think that tradeoff is worth it. If you choose not to use a phone -- but you are obviously capable of using technology if you are posting here -- you are choosing not to do business with me.
        uoaei 3y ago
        At the same time, in this hypothetical scenario, you're choosing not to do business with me. It's always going to be a two-way street. Supply and demand are both equal partners in transactional economies.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Isn't that what I just said? If I open Scarface's Pork and Spirits, I'm choosing not to do business with observant Muslims. We are both making choices using our free will.
        uoaei 3y ago
        Indeed if you reread your own comments, that's not what you said. You're attempting to put the onus solely on the consumer.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        In either case, I chose to make business decisions that are good for the target demographic that I want to go after. Do you also complain that there isn’t a number that you can call to get an Uber ride and you have to have a cell phone? Or that you can’t call Amazon to place an order like you could when they first came online in the 90s when people were afraid to pay over the web? If either company misses out on few Luddites on HN wearing tin foil hats, their business will go on fine.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  I don't think anyone is calling for a ban on these new digital checkouts and QR code menus. We're just asking don't make that the only way.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    And I'n saying the business should have the right to decide whether the marginal cost of providing alternate methods is worth the marginal revenue to gain customers that choose not to partake in something expected in modern society in 2023.
fluxem 3y ago
> There are plenty of disabilities that don't allow people to use technology What I meant is that the majority of people don’t have a disability that would prevent them from using technology. The ones who do, should and do get assistance > Not to mention, there are plenty of people who are religiously or ideologically against new technology If your religion or ideology is to live in an ancient world, by all means do. Just don’t come to the 21st century and complain that you cannot enjoy the modern society
- johngladtj 3y ago
  That's fine. Do they get to not pay taxes too?
- em-bee 3y ago
  do you realize how degrading it is having to ask for help everytime because of a disability? we should be empowering people to be independent, and that is even more important for people with disabilities.
- arp242 3y ago
  In practice "use the app" means "use an Apple or Android phone". If "modern society" means "please make these ethically dubious companies in a duopoly that produce devices I don't even like even richer", then I will gladly be "ancient". I have serious problems more or less forcing people to give money to one of these two 100% for-profit companies, especially when it's for public services. It's fundamentally and profoundly anti-free market. For all the hate the web and browsers get here, at least that's an open platform that you can run on more or less $any system of your choice, or even re-implement from scratch (which, while still a large project, is quite as hard as sometimes made out to be).
FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
> There is no physical or mental disability preventing people using modern technology. > It's absolutely abhorrent that you would begin to think this. There are plenty of disabilities that don't allow people to use technology Actually, yeah, this is a good point. Ever watched somebody with a nerve issue try to use a touchscreen? Their hand shaking all over the place? You're lucky if they can do it without somehow texting gibberish to random contacts.

by alexb_ 3y ago

scarface_74 3y ago

> Not to mention, there are plenty of people who are religiously or ideologically against new technology. Why should I go out of my way because someone made a choice to inconvenience themselves? This is just as bad as all of the bans on alcohol sales on Sunday because of religion.

Mordisquitos 3y ago
> Why should I go out of my way because someone made a choice to inconvenience themselves? Why should I go out of my way because someone decided that I now must own a smartphone (often iPhone or Google Play required) to do things that we all used to be able to do before without one? This is just as bad as adding unjustified bureaucratic and procedural requirements to actions that used to be able to be done freely and without hindrance.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > Why should I go out of my way because someone decided that I now must own a smartphone (often iPhone or Google Play required) to do things that we all used to be able to do before without one? You don't. You are free to make any life choices you want and suffer the consequences of your life choices as long as they don't affect me.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    It's hard to believe you are really this "consequences for thee but not for me" about life in general, considering your comment just up-thread, but I suppose it makes sense that such people would exist and be so self-uncritical as to proudly and openly pronounce such beliefs.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      If I choose not to sell a product or service in a method that some subset of customers don't find acceptable, I'm losing some amount of revenue. I must think that tradeoff is worth it. If you choose not to use a phone -- but you are obviously capable of using technology if you are posting here -- you are choosing not to do business with me.
      - uoaei 3y ago
        At the same time, in this hypothetical scenario, you're choosing not to do business with me. It's always going to be a two-way street. Supply and demand are both equal partners in transactional economies.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Isn't that what I just said? If I open Scarface's Pork and Spirits, I'm choosing not to do business with observant Muslims. We are both making choices using our free will.
        uoaei 3y ago
        Indeed if you reread your own comments, that's not what you said. You're attempting to put the onus solely on the consumer.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        In either case, I chose to make business decisions that are good for the target demographic that I want to go after. Do you also complain that there isn’t a number that you can call to get an Uber ride and you have to have a cell phone? Or that you can’t call Amazon to place an order like you could when they first came online in the 90s when people were afraid to pay over the web? If either company misses out on few Luddites on HN wearing tin foil hats, their business will go on fine.
ryandrake 3y ago
I don't think anyone is calling for a ban on these new digital checkouts and QR code menus. We're just asking don't make that the only way.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  And I'n saying the business should have the right to decide whether the marginal cost of providing alternate methods is worth the marginal revenue to gain customers that choose not to partake in something expected in modern society in 2023.

fluxem 3y ago

> There are plenty of disabilities that don't allow people to use technology What I meant is that the majority of people don’t have a disability that would prevent them from using technology. The ones who do, should and do get assistance > Not to mention, there are plenty of people who are religiously or ideologically against new technology If your religion or ideology is to live in an ancient world, by all means do. Just don’t come to the 21st century and complain that you cannot enjoy the modern society

johngladtj 3y ago
That's fine. Do they get to not pay taxes too?
em-bee 3y ago
do you realize how degrading it is having to ask for help everytime because of a disability? we should be empowering people to be independent, and that is even more important for people with disabilities.
arp242 3y ago
In practice "use the app" means "use an Apple or Android phone". If "modern society" means "please make these ethically dubious companies in a duopoly that produce devices I don't even like even richer", then I will gladly be "ancient". I have serious problems more or less forcing people to give money to one of these two 100% for-profit companies, especially when it's for public services. It's fundamentally and profoundly anti-free market. For all the hate the web and browsers get here, at least that's an open platform that you can run on more or less $any system of your choice, or even re-implement from scratch (which, while still a large project, is quite as hard as sometimes made out to be).

FooBarBizBazz 3y ago

> There is no physical or mental disability preventing people using modern technology. > It's absolutely abhorrent that you would begin to think this. There are plenty of disabilities that don't allow people to use technology Actually, yeah, this is a good point. Ever watched somebody with a nerve issue try to use a touchscreen? Their hand shaking all over the place? You're lucky if they can do it without somehow texting gibberish to random contacts.