5 ms·
> Second, this is similar to the "equalise things by dragging everyone down to the same level"-type of thinking. > and not allowing for an opportunity to write
by mathisfun123 3y ago
> Second, this is similar to the "equalise things by dragging everyone down to the same level"-type of thinking.
> and not allowing for an opportunity to write really good code. Basically, enforced mediocrity.
> straightforward, laziest, zero optimisation code, and giving themselves an excuse for that.
> justify their laziness,
Jesus christ you have so much disdain for such a large set of people. Have you ever considered that you might have a chip on your shoulder about Haskell adoption?
> There should be a place for languages which are ambitious and aren't afraid to break things.
There is - it's research and hobby, not production. Like literally "not afraid to break things" is the antithesis of an industrial language.
Sometimes I wonder if some language communities really are cults. It's the same with Lisp - replace "type system" with "homoiconic" and you have the exact same mantras about ultimate supremacy and "intellectual" superiority. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating and across probably 10 computing devices in my home, not a single one has any Haskell or Lisp programs running on it. Lots of Java, C, C++, Python, Rust, Bash, JavaScript, even Perl (probably) but not a single binary compiled from Haskell or Lisp interpreter to be found. To any reasonable person, that should be a strong signal about the so called "power" and value of their sacred cow.
Put another way: the word language in the concept of programming language isn't accidental and learning a niche programming language is comparable to learning a niche human language - have fun, expand your horizons, but don't pretend it's useful.
- Pannoniae 3y ago"Jesus christ you have so much disdain for such a large set of people." - Correct. I kind of hate myself too. If everyone is afraid to say these things or afraid to have a disdain for bad things, nothing will improve. Things improve because some people are pissed off enough to do something about it, not by just going along with whatever. "Have you ever considered that you might have a chip on your shoulder about Haskell adoption?" - No. I barely use Haskell myself. This could have been written about any other language, my opinion would have been similar. I don't have a strong emotional attachment to Haskell specifically.
- jamincan 3y ago> Sometimes I wonder if some language communities really are cults. It's the same with Lisp - replace "type system" with "homoiconic" and you have the exact same mantras about ultimate supremacy and "intellectual" superiority. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating and across probably 10 computing devices in my home, not a single one has any Haskell or Lisp programs running on it. Lots of Java, C, C++, Python, Rust, Bash, JavaScript, even Perl (probably) but not a single binary compiled from Haskell or Lisp interpreter to be found. To any reasonable person, that should be a strong signal about the so called "power" and value of their sacred cow. Xmonad and pandoc are probably the most heavily used Haskell programs. Not necessarily contradicting your overall point, just exhibiting the two examples that someone might reasonably be expected to run into.
- mathisfun123 3y agofair enough - i don't use xmonad but i do use pandoc on occasion. in full transparency: it occurred to me that i am familiar with postgrest, though i've never run it personally. still no lisp programs though!
- littlestymaar 3y agoIsn't HN written in lisp?
- Pannoniae 3y agoArc, but I think it counts because it's a lisp-like....
- mathisfun123 3y agoand <looks around> what can we conclude from this?
- Pannoniae 3y agothat lisp is a perfectly usable language for writing cool and usable things :)
- vaibhavsagar 3y agoI personally use Vim, but Emacs alone is IMO the strongest counterexample to your claim about Lisp interpreters (followed by all the programs scriptable with Guile).
- mathisfun123 3y agoI mean I'm aware of emacs but I am also a vim user so I proudly stand by my claim.
- yakshaving_jgt 3y agoHaskell isn't just used for small programs for computer nerds. Haskell is successfully used in industry, in some cases with billions of users. https://engineering.fb.com/2015/06/26/security/fighting-spam-with-haskell/ https://engineering.fb.com/2015/06/26/security/fighting-spam...