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Thanks for sharing this fascinating take on how you experience the world. Personally, as a man, I have never found the need to worry about any of the issues you

Thanks for sharing this fascinating take on how you experience the world. Personally, as a man, I have never found the need to worry about any of the issues you highlight when interacting with other genders. I wonder what makes our experiences so different?

phnofive 3y ago
What do you think makes your experiences so different?
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  Could be perhaps generation difference. Many things today considered to be sexism used to be normal fun a few decades ago and perhaps older people can slip into the old behavior if not careful. I'm personally not worried about working in a mixed team, no matter how small the office is. I just keep things professional ... and that's it. Having said that, conditions in a submarine might be different, and office experience might not be applicable.
darkclouds 3y ago
I've been accused of groping a woman at staff party when I hadnt. Other colleagues knew my married male manager was having an affair with this single mum and was at it in a room with all the coats. I was asked to go get a coat by a colleague that knew what was going on and I walked in on them so walked straight back out. Monday morning to save face, she accused me of groping her and spread it around the company. I left shortly after that incident, it became untenable to stay on. Women have reputations to uphold, so will often lie to maintain them, laws are in their favour.
- callalex 3y ago
  Do you habitually generalize the behavior of one lying person to a entire half of the human population?
pm3003 3y ago
What hilbert42 says is very relatable to me even if it never got so bad for me. I can't stress enough how everything is different "when one can't 'go home' during off hours". I used to be an enlisted sailor, then an officer. It's sometimes hard to have a few minutes alone in an entire day (night included), especially on smaller or older ships. After a few months any small thing can become a very nasty fight very fast. The word "microagression" suddenly makes a lot of sense. I once got into a fight because some guy thought I had slightly moved his towel that was in front of my bunk. This man had been at sea on the ship for more than 6 month, I had joined mid-tour a month before. I've seen a male-only boat (there were one or two female officers, which was accepted because of the bathroom configuration) get one female enlisted sailor, a talented and very professional young woman. Everything changed in one day. Though submariners are often a bit more mature than others, managing a mixed crew on a small ship is very different. Remember the average age on a military ship is rarely above 25. Sexual harassment is not the hardest, since everyone is with everyone 24/7, most cases are very clear cut. I've seen a few very nasty cases (sexual predator that went undetected for months or year, a guy that wasn't reported despite a suspected rape attempt and went on to assault someone on his next ship under my command, a false rape claim) but it's mostly straightforward to handle. A lot of officers don't close their doors when doing personal review or other one-to-one interviews and conversations with female sailors but the paranoia mostly stops there. Dealing with "regular" harassment, rumours, jealousy etc is way less simple with a mixed crew, regardless of the personal qualities of the people. And of course your management style has to be adapted. When you have more than a few (young) women in a team, you have to lead differently. (Women over 40 are rarely on the "bad" side (when there is a clear one) of those problems). I've seen quite a few of those cases. Sometimes, we've been successful in stopping them before harm gets done, sometimes someone's life was ruined for months or years or people had to be transferred because trust had been broken too deep and some people couldn't work together anymore. And a few cases with legal proceedings (harassment lawsuit etc), but never handled one myself. On a personal note I (male) have had to share a two beds room with a female for a few months. We didn't sleep a lot, and often not at the same time, never had any problems. It was a male-only boat with less than five women. Hope this gives you an impression of what it can be like.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
hilbert42 3y ago
It's not an intrinsic worry and I trust myself implicitly to behave well and I always have. The problem is the changed political climate where one has to be constantly aware of what one says or to not touch or bump someone accidentally. This stops people acting naturally, especially in some types of work environments. Same I reckon would go for male schoolteachers, I often wonder how they manage these days when there's a magnifying glass on evey movement they make.

phnofive 3y ago

What do you think makes your experiences so different?

The_Colonel 3y ago
Could be perhaps generation difference. Many things today considered to be sexism used to be normal fun a few decades ago and perhaps older people can slip into the old behavior if not careful. I'm personally not worried about working in a mixed team, no matter how small the office is. I just keep things professional ... and that's it. Having said that, conditions in a submarine might be different, and office experience might not be applicable.

darkclouds 3y ago

I've been accused of groping a woman at staff party when I hadnt. Other colleagues knew my married male manager was having an affair with this single mum and was at it in a room with all the coats. I was asked to go get a coat by a colleague that knew what was going on and I walked in on them so walked straight back out. Monday morning to save face, she accused me of groping her and spread it around the company. I left shortly after that incident, it became untenable to stay on. Women have reputations to uphold, so will often lie to maintain them, laws are in their favour.

callalex 3y ago
Do you habitually generalize the behavior of one lying person to a entire half of the human population?

pm3003 3y ago

What hilbert42 says is very relatable to me even if it never got so bad for me. I can't stress enough how everything is different "when one can't 'go home' during off hours". I used to be an enlisted sailor, then an officer. It's sometimes hard to have a few minutes alone in an entire day (night included), especially on smaller or older ships. After a few months any small thing can become a very nasty fight very fast. The word "microagression" suddenly makes a lot of sense. I once got into a fight because some guy thought I had slightly moved his towel that was in front of my bunk. This man had been at sea on the ship for more than 6 month, I had joined mid-tour a month before. I've seen a male-only boat (there were one or two female officers, which was accepted because of the bathroom configuration) get one female enlisted sailor, a talented and very professional young woman. Everything changed in one day. Though submariners are often a bit more mature than others, managing a mixed crew on a small ship is very different. Remember the average age on a military ship is rarely above 25. Sexual harassment is not the hardest, since everyone is with everyone 24/7, most cases are very clear cut. I've seen a few very nasty cases (sexual predator that went undetected for months or year, a guy that wasn't reported despite a suspected rape attempt and went on to assault someone on his next ship under my command, a false rape claim) but it's mostly straightforward to handle. A lot of officers don't close their doors when doing personal review or other one-to-one interviews and conversations with female sailors but the paranoia mostly stops there. Dealing with "regular" harassment, rumours, jealousy etc is way less simple with a mixed crew, regardless of the personal qualities of the people. And of course your management style has to be adapted. When you have more than a few (young) women in a team, you have to lead differently. (Women over 40 are rarely on the "bad" side (when there is a clear one) of those problems). I've seen quite a few of those cases. Sometimes, we've been successful in stopping them before harm gets done, sometimes someone's life was ruined for months or years or people had to be transferred because trust had been broken too deep and some people couldn't work together anymore. And a few cases with legal proceedings (harassment lawsuit etc), but never handled one myself. On a personal note I (male) have had to share a two beds room with a female for a few months. We didn't sleep a lot, and often not at the same time, never had any problems. It was a male-only boat with less than five women. Hope this gives you an impression of what it can be like.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

hilbert42 3y ago

It's not an intrinsic worry and I trust myself implicitly to behave well and I always have. The problem is the changed political climate where one has to be constantly aware of what one says or to not touch or bump someone accidentally. This stops people acting naturally, especially in some types of work environments. Same I reckon would go for male schoolteachers, I often wonder how they manage these days when there's a magnifying glass on evey movement they make.