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Twitter is full of videos of FSD drives and they seem to work very well now. You can see the software improvements from older drive videos on the same channel (

Twitter is full of videos of FSD drives and they seem to work very well now. You can see the software improvements from older drive videos on the same channel (running the same hardware). I think it's important to look at the current state of FSD beta, not the past state from more than a year ago.

GhostVII 3y ago
But they still aren't anywhere close to level three self driving (let alone level 5, which Elon promised). What's the point of self driving if you have to constantly monitor it?
- mbushey 3y ago
  Constantly monitoring FSD is no where near as much work as driving. It's also 5x safer than just a human.
  - Veserv 3y ago
    There is no auditable evidence that it is 5x safer than a human. The 5x safer number is a number self-reported by the Tesla marketing department [1]. This “safety report” consists of three unverified “miles per crash” ratios with no underlying raw data. They do not even publish the raw number of “miles” or “crashes” used in their analysis. It is a “safety report” where they can not even be bothered to publish the numerator or denominator, let alone publishing their methodology, analysis, controlling for variables, or accounting for bias. No self-respecting scientist or engineer would be caught dead issuing such a deficient report. In contrast, here is the report by Waymo on their first million driverless miles [2]. As you can see, it follows the basic structure of a research paper. It offers a detailed description and analysis of every individual crash. The difference in reporting is the gap between a grade school report and a proper research paper. It is an abomination that Tesla is allowed to publish such unsupported and misleading “statistics” just they can more effectively market a incomplete and unsafe product to unsuspecting consumers. [1] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport [2] https://storage.googleapis.com/waymo-uploads/files/documents/safety/Safety%20Performance%20of%20Waymo%20RO%20at%201M%20miles.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/waymo-uploads/files/documents...
Veserv 3y ago
Tesla was informed in August 2022 that it would run down children in the road [1]. Tesla was informed in November 2022 that it would ignore “Do Not Enter” and “Road Closed” signs [2]. Tesla was informed in November 2022 that it would ignore school bus stop signs [3]. Tesla was subsequently informed in November 2022 it would still run down children in the road [4]. Tesla was subsequently informed in February 2023 that it would still do all of these things [5]. In March 2023 a North Carolina student exiting a school bus with the stop sign extended was hit by a Tesla in ADAS mode [6]. ADAS mode usage was confirmed by Tesla in the NHTSA SGO database labeled ID 13781-5100 [7]. These safety defects continue to be present as noted in July 2023 [8]. They continue to be present along with critical deficiencies in the Tesla DMS system as noted in August 2023 [9]. FSD is critically deficient and has seen no meaningful improvement in critical showstopping deficiencies for months. Some of which have caused demonstrable avoidable harm. This is unacceptable for a safety-critical product. [1] https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-projects-new-advertising-campaign-highlighting-the-dangers-of-teslas-full-self-driving/ https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-projects-new-advertising-ca... [2] https://dawnproject.com/new-dawn-project-safety-tests-reveal-that-tesla-full-self-driving-fails-to-obey-road-closed-and-do-not-enter-signs/ https://dawnproject.com/new-dawn-project-safety-tests-reveal... [3] https://dawnproject.com/tests-reveal-that-tesla-fsd-will-drive-around-stopped-school-buses/ https://dawnproject.com/tests-reveal-that-tesla-fsd-will-dri... [4] https://dawnproject.com/new-dawn-project-safety-tests-show-tesla-fsd-still-runs-down-children/ https://dawnproject.com/new-dawn-project-safety-tests-show-t... [5] https://dawnproject.com/watch-all-angles-of-the-dawn-projects-super-bowl-advertisement/ https://dawnproject.com/watch-all-angles-of-the-dawn-project... [6] https://www.wral.com/howard-gene-yee-51-was-driving-a-2022-tesla-model-y-when-he-was-accused-of-hitting-a-student-getting-off-a-school-bus/20767543/ https://www.wral.com/howard-gene-yee-51-was-driving-a-2022-t... [7] https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/ffdd/sgo-2021-01/SGO-2021-01_Incident_Reports_ADAS.csv https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/ffdd/sgo-2021-01/SGO-2021-01_In... [8] https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-project-publishes-dangers-that-tesla-full-self-driving-cars-pose-to-school-children/ https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-project-publishes-dangers-t... [9] https://dawnproject.com/dawn-project-video-shows-teslas-driver-monitoring-system-is-a-sham-with-videos-of-sleeping-driver-teddy-bear-and-no-one-at-the-wheel-with-no-warnings-from-the-tesla/ https://dawnproject.com/dawn-project-video-shows-teslas-driv...
- 3y ago

GhostVII 3y ago

But they still aren't anywhere close to level three self driving (let alone level 5, which Elon promised). What's the point of self driving if you have to constantly monitor it?

mbushey 3y ago
Constantly monitoring FSD is no where near as much work as driving. It's also 5x safer than just a human.
- Veserv 3y ago
  There is no auditable evidence that it is 5x safer than a human. The 5x safer number is a number self-reported by the Tesla marketing department [1]. This “safety report” consists of three unverified “miles per crash” ratios with no underlying raw data. They do not even publish the raw number of “miles” or “crashes” used in their analysis. It is a “safety report” where they can not even be bothered to publish the numerator or denominator, let alone publishing their methodology, analysis, controlling for variables, or accounting for bias. No self-respecting scientist or engineer would be caught dead issuing such a deficient report. In contrast, here is the report by Waymo on their first million driverless miles [2]. As you can see, it follows the basic structure of a research paper. It offers a detailed description and analysis of every individual crash. The difference in reporting is the gap between a grade school report and a proper research paper. It is an abomination that Tesla is allowed to publish such unsupported and misleading “statistics” just they can more effectively market a incomplete and unsafe product to unsuspecting consumers. [1] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport [2] https://storage.googleapis.com/waymo-uploads/files/documents/safety/Safety%20Performance%20of%20Waymo%20RO%20at%201M%20miles.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/waymo-uploads/files/documents...

Veserv 3y ago

Tesla was informed in August 2022 that it would run down children in the road [1]. Tesla was informed in November 2022 that it would ignore “Do Not Enter” and “Road Closed” signs [2]. Tesla was informed in November 2022 that it would ignore school bus stop signs [3]. Tesla was subsequently informed in November 2022 it would still run down children in the road [4]. Tesla was subsequently informed in February 2023 that it would still do all of these things [5]. In March 2023 a North Carolina student exiting a school bus with the stop sign extended was hit by a Tesla in ADAS mode [6]. ADAS mode usage was confirmed by Tesla in the NHTSA SGO database labeled ID 13781-5100 [7]. These safety defects continue to be present as noted in July 2023 [8]. They continue to be present along with critical deficiencies in the Tesla DMS system as noted in August 2023 [9]. FSD is critically deficient and has seen no meaningful improvement in critical showstopping deficiencies for months. Some of which have caused demonstrable avoidable harm. This is unacceptable for a safety-critical product. [1] https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-projects-new-advertising-campaign-highlighting-the-dangers-of-teslas-full-self-driving/ https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-projects-new-advertising-ca... [2] https://dawnproject.com/new-dawn-project-safety-tests-reveal-that-tesla-full-self-driving-fails-to-obey-road-closed-and-do-not-enter-signs/ https://dawnproject.com/new-dawn-project-safety-tests-reveal... [3] https://dawnproject.com/tests-reveal-that-tesla-fsd-will-drive-around-stopped-school-buses/ https://dawnproject.com/tests-reveal-that-tesla-fsd-will-dri... [4] https://dawnproject.com/new-dawn-project-safety-tests-show-tesla-fsd-still-runs-down-children/ https://dawnproject.com/new-dawn-project-safety-tests-show-t... [5] https://dawnproject.com/watch-all-angles-of-the-dawn-projects-super-bowl-advertisement/ https://dawnproject.com/watch-all-angles-of-the-dawn-project... [6] https://www.wral.com/howard-gene-yee-51-was-driving-a-2022-tesla-model-y-when-he-was-accused-of-hitting-a-student-getting-off-a-school-bus/20767543/ https://www.wral.com/howard-gene-yee-51-was-driving-a-2022-t... [7] https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/ffdd/sgo-2021-01/SGO-2021-01_Incident_Reports_ADAS.csv https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/ffdd/sgo-2021-01/SGO-2021-01_In... [8] https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-project-publishes-dangers-that-tesla-full-self-driving-cars-pose-to-school-children/ https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-project-publishes-dangers-t... [9] https://dawnproject.com/dawn-project-video-shows-teslas-driver-monitoring-system-is-a-sham-with-videos-of-sleeping-driver-teddy-bear-and-no-one-at-the-wheel-with-no-warnings-from-the-tesla/ https://dawnproject.com/dawn-project-video-shows-teslas-driv...

3y ago