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How many domestic flights has Russia downed? The plane was like 11 minutes into a Moscow to St. Petersburg leg. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ra-

by Hamuko 3y ago

How many domestic flights has Russia downed? The plane was like 11 minutes into a Moscow to St. Petersburg leg. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ra-02795#31b7cbfb https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ra-02795#31b7cbf...

mrtksn 3y ago
Not necessarily domestic but Russian Air Defence systems has a rich history of downing passenger planes. From recent history, Iran downed Ukrainian passenger plane in Tehran using Russian Tor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines... Russian backed rebels downed Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine using Russia supplied Buk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 Then there are other incidents during the Cold War.
- arp242 3y ago
  AUI752 was shot down by Iranians, not Russians. They happened to be using gear bought from Russia, but that's not really important. MH17 wasn't shot down by the Russian military either, but independent rebels. Basically Russia gave anti-aircraft equipment to disorganized yahoos, who then proceeded to do disorganized yahoo things with it. Surprised Pikachu face. All of this could have happened with US equipment too; the equipment wasn't at fault, the choices people made were at fault, and those choices weren't (directly) made by the Russian military. That said, friendly fire has happened in combat zones (e.g. [1]), but this is ... kind of normal and happens in any armed force, and Prigozhin's plane wasn't anywhere near a combat zone. It's still possible it was mistaken for a drone or missile (especially as there have been missile attacks), but I don't know ... seems a little to coincidental it just so happens to be Prigozhin's plane, especially with the history of people inconvenient to Putin falling out of windows, down stairs, ending up with radioactive material in their possession without their knowledge, brutally accidentally cutting of their own head while combing their hair, etc. [1]: https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/07/russia-shot-down-its-own-aircraft-again-report/ https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/07/russia-shot-down-it...
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    Russian weapons taking down civilian aircraft all the time V.S. Western weapons not doing this despite its much widespread use(check out the number of US bases) can be an indication of weapon design issues or limitations. It's not true that AUI752 or MH17 was done by choice, it's very unlikely that those who destroyed these planes wanted to kill bunch of civilians in a very high profile fashion to spice up their already precarious situations. It's probably not the case with the Wagner situation because there's a motive and symbolism but I also wouldn't omit the possibility of it being a "happy accident" for Putin. An oopsie by overly alert operator expecting yet another drone attack.
    - cameldrv 3y ago
      This has happened to the U.S. with Iran Air 655. Ultimately shooting at an aircraft based just on a radar blip is inherently error prone. The biggest difference probably is that the U.S. relies more on fighters for air defense and usually the rules of engagement require a visual confirmation, which is very unlikely to mistake an airliner for a military jet.

by Hamuko 3y ago

mrtksn 3y ago

Not necessarily domestic but Russian Air Defence systems has a rich history of downing passenger planes. From recent history, Iran downed Ukrainian passenger plane in Tehran using Russian Tor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines... Russian backed rebels downed Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine using Russia supplied Buk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 Then there are other incidents during the Cold War.

arp242 3y ago
AUI752 was shot down by Iranians, not Russians. They happened to be using gear bought from Russia, but that's not really important. MH17 wasn't shot down by the Russian military either, but independent rebels. Basically Russia gave anti-aircraft equipment to disorganized yahoos, who then proceeded to do disorganized yahoo things with it. Surprised Pikachu face. All of this could have happened with US equipment too; the equipment wasn't at fault, the choices people made were at fault, and those choices weren't (directly) made by the Russian military. That said, friendly fire has happened in combat zones (e.g. [1]), but this is ... kind of normal and happens in any armed force, and Prigozhin's plane wasn't anywhere near a combat zone. It's still possible it was mistaken for a drone or missile (especially as there have been missile attacks), but I don't know ... seems a little to coincidental it just so happens to be Prigozhin's plane, especially with the history of people inconvenient to Putin falling out of windows, down stairs, ending up with radioactive material in their possession without their knowledge, brutally accidentally cutting of their own head while combing their hair, etc. [1]: https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/07/russia-shot-down-its-own-aircraft-again-report/ https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/07/russia-shot-down-it...
- mrtksn 3y ago
  Russian weapons taking down civilian aircraft all the time V.S. Western weapons not doing this despite its much widespread use(check out the number of US bases) can be an indication of weapon design issues or limitations. It's not true that AUI752 or MH17 was done by choice, it's very unlikely that those who destroyed these planes wanted to kill bunch of civilians in a very high profile fashion to spice up their already precarious situations. It's probably not the case with the Wagner situation because there's a motive and symbolism but I also wouldn't omit the possibility of it being a "happy accident" for Putin. An oopsie by overly alert operator expecting yet another drone attack.
  - cameldrv 3y ago
    This has happened to the U.S. with Iran Air 655. Ultimately shooting at an aircraft based just on a radar blip is inherently error prone. The biggest difference probably is that the U.S. relies more on fighters for air defense and usually the rules of engagement require a visual confirmation, which is very unlikely to mistake an airliner for a military jet.