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> Preparation and leverage means doing the work to make sure that you have multiple offers, that all your offers come in at the same time, and that you don’t ti

by jawns 3y ago

> Preparation and leverage means doing the work to make sure that you have multiple offers, that all your offers come in at the same time, and that you don’t tip your hand too early. Laying this foundation is 80% of the work. You’ll need to slow some companies down, speed some companies up, and hold off questions from recruiters until you’re ready to negotiate, and not before. Laying this foundation is largely unachievable for people who are not full-time job seeking. Even when you're doing nothing but applying and have a decently impressive combination of skills and experience, it can be quite difficult in certain environments to get a single offer, let alone multiple offers, let alone multiple offers coming in at the same time. But if you're currently holding down a full-time job and are looking to make a move into a new role, the odds of everything lining up perfectly like this are going to be so low as to be unrealistic even for very talented people.

sneak 3y ago
Would you work 80 hour weeks for a month or two to make an additional $5-20k per month indefinitely for the foreseeable future? I would. It's not like it's impossible, it's just more work.
- jawns 3y ago
  This feels like a "mythical man month" fallacy. Say you're working a standard 9-to-5. Sure, you can submit applications during the evenings, but once you get your foot in the door, you're constrained by the business hours of the place where you're applying. Most job interviews take place during normal business hours. You might be able to take your lunch hour to do a phone screen, or you might be able to take off a couple of days of PTO for an on-site interview. But you can't work your normal 9-5 and then expect to do all your job interviews from 5-midnight.
  - sneak 3y ago
    You're right, but I imagine there is wiggle room - both in scheduling interviews from 5PM to 7-8PM, as well as trading day job business hours needed for interviews for "working late" (really making up the time) for stuff that isn't meetings or synchronous. If you're hustling toward a $300-600k/yr gig, I think a lot of temporary insanity can be tolerated in furtherance of that goal. Remember also that salary increases compound over your working career.
    - imheretolearn 3y ago
      Works well in theory but not in practice. Your peers/managers will soon notice and figure something’s up especially if each of the interviews has 5-6 rounds(which is what you’d usually expect for a position paying $300k-$600k) > Remember also that salary increases compound over your working career. Not true. As demostrated by 2021-2 outrageous offers where the market is now correcting itself.
      - rconti 3y ago
        > Not true. As demostrated by 2021-2 outrageous offers where the market is now correcting itself. Are many people taking salary cuts? Layoffs? Enough so to bring them back to where they started?
- Scoring6931 3y ago
  While you have no children, maybe
SkyPuncher 3y ago
I’ve found this advice to be far too prevalent and largely unrealistic. Nearly everything about the interview process is out of your control. Getting multiple, competing offers to line up is extremely hard. It’s basically like saying “you win a race by being the fastest”. No duh! How you be the fastest is the hardest part.
- viking123 3y ago
  Yeah it is so difficult to align these. I had two interview loops going and the other company was my clear favorite but the loop took like 2 months while the other was two weeks. So what I ended up doing is that I took the first job and now in a month or so I am going to quit and move to the other. It sucks but I literally had no other way because I cannot predict the result of the other interview and I cannot ask the other to wait freaking two months
  - knallfrosch 3y ago
    It's uncomfortable, but possible. In other domains, you might not be able switch from one choice to the other at all. I find that thought calming.
  - bomewish 3y ago
    Wow, that doesn't seem right.
- fishtoaster 3y ago
  Is it really? Maybe it depends on your market, but I've been able to do it... pretty much every time over the last 12 years. You apply to a bunch of places over ~2 weeks, then try to get the slow ones to speed up and/or the fast ones to slow down. If you've got an offer and are waiting to hear back from a few other companies, you can usually just say that and the first offer will wait a week or two.
Goronmon 3y ago
Even when you're doing nothing but applying and have a decently impressive combination of skills and experience, it can be quite difficult in certain environments to get a single offer, let alone multiple offers, let alone multiple offers coming in at the same time. It's even worse if you lack any impressive skills and experience. Aside from the fact that interviewing itself is really bad for my mental health, despite being in the bottom of the percentiles on places like levels.fyi, I doubt I'd be able to match my currently salary with any job that I could actually get hired for. So, looking up this type of information just ends up discouraging me even more. Knowing that finding a job is less about salary and more about just being able to get an offer makes most of this advice less than helpful.
jnwatson 3y ago
I did it (3 FAANGs). I also did it once before with my then-current employer and two other companies. You have to stall the urgent folks and push the slow ones. It did take a lot of burning vacation time.

by jawns 3y ago

sneak 3y ago

Would you work 80 hour weeks for a month or two to make an additional $5-20k per month indefinitely for the foreseeable future? I would. It's not like it's impossible, it's just more work.

jawns 3y ago
This feels like a "mythical man month" fallacy. Say you're working a standard 9-to-5. Sure, you can submit applications during the evenings, but once you get your foot in the door, you're constrained by the business hours of the place where you're applying. Most job interviews take place during normal business hours. You might be able to take your lunch hour to do a phone screen, or you might be able to take off a couple of days of PTO for an on-site interview. But you can't work your normal 9-5 and then expect to do all your job interviews from 5-midnight.
- sneak 3y ago
  You're right, but I imagine there is wiggle room - both in scheduling interviews from 5PM to 7-8PM, as well as trading day job business hours needed for interviews for "working late" (really making up the time) for stuff that isn't meetings or synchronous. If you're hustling toward a $300-600k/yr gig, I think a lot of temporary insanity can be tolerated in furtherance of that goal. Remember also that salary increases compound over your working career.
  - imheretolearn 3y ago
    Works well in theory but not in practice. Your peers/managers will soon notice and figure something’s up especially if each of the interviews has 5-6 rounds(which is what you’d usually expect for a position paying $300k-$600k) > Remember also that salary increases compound over your working career. Not true. As demostrated by 2021-2 outrageous offers where the market is now correcting itself.
    - rconti 3y ago
      > Not true. As demostrated by 2021-2 outrageous offers where the market is now correcting itself. Are many people taking salary cuts? Layoffs? Enough so to bring them back to where they started?
Scoring6931 3y ago
While you have no children, maybe

SkyPuncher 3y ago

I’ve found this advice to be far too prevalent and largely unrealistic. Nearly everything about the interview process is out of your control. Getting multiple, competing offers to line up is extremely hard. It’s basically like saying “you win a race by being the fastest”. No duh! How you be the fastest is the hardest part.

viking123 3y ago
Yeah it is so difficult to align these. I had two interview loops going and the other company was my clear favorite but the loop took like 2 months while the other was two weeks. So what I ended up doing is that I took the first job and now in a month or so I am going to quit and move to the other. It sucks but I literally had no other way because I cannot predict the result of the other interview and I cannot ask the other to wait freaking two months
- knallfrosch 3y ago
  It's uncomfortable, but possible. In other domains, you might not be able switch from one choice to the other at all. I find that thought calming.
- bomewish 3y ago
  Wow, that doesn't seem right.
fishtoaster 3y ago
Is it really? Maybe it depends on your market, but I've been able to do it... pretty much every time over the last 12 years. You apply to a bunch of places over ~2 weeks, then try to get the slow ones to speed up and/or the fast ones to slow down. If you've got an offer and are waiting to hear back from a few other companies, you can usually just say that and the first offer will wait a week or two.

Goronmon 3y ago

Even when you're doing nothing but applying and have a decently impressive combination of skills and experience, it can be quite difficult in certain environments to get a single offer, let alone multiple offers, let alone multiple offers coming in at the same time. It's even worse if you lack any impressive skills and experience. Aside from the fact that interviewing itself is really bad for my mental health, despite being in the bottom of the percentiles on places like levels.fyi, I doubt I'd be able to match my currently salary with any job that I could actually get hired for. So, looking up this type of information just ends up discouraging me even more. Knowing that finding a job is less about salary and more about just being able to get an offer makes most of this advice less than helpful.

jnwatson 3y ago

I did it (3 FAANGs). I also did it once before with my then-current employer and two other companies. You have to stall the urgent folks and push the slow ones. It did take a lot of burning vacation time.