4 ms·

> For starters, Apple is not a monopoly. You are not a monopoly on your own platform Doesn't matter. Antitrust laws address competition, monopoly is just a sub

> For starters, Apple is not a monopoly. You are not a monopoly on your own platform Doesn't matter. Antitrust laws address competition, monopoly is just a subset. The Apple App Store is an 800lb Gorilla is the app space, ergo, subject to pro-competition laws. The app developer can't sell his app on iPhones via another channel, iPhones make up a substantial part of the market, and that's why those laws exist and apply in this case.

scarface_74 3y ago
Luckily, we have a real judge in a real court in the Epic vs Apple lawsuit where the judge said that Apple isn’t a monopoly.
- hgs3 3y ago
  Let's say you're right and Apple is not a monopoly under current antitrust laws, then all that proves is the laws are too lax.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    It’s not about me being right, it’s about what a real judge says.
    - hgs3 3y ago
      Let's say the Judge* is right and Apple is not a monopoly under current antitrust laws, then all that proves is the laws are too lax.
      - coldtea 3y ago
        Or it might prove that the current antitrust laws correctly deal with trusts. And that if we want new laws, to be e.g. about "each platform must be open to third parties" regardless of market share, we need to push for them and get them, not abuse antitrust laws for something they weren't meant to cover.
- summerlight 3y ago
  Please do not distort the court decision. No official entities (such as FTC or DoJ) were involved in this case, it's just a private firm that failed to prove Apple's illegal monopoly (which is also different from market monopoly and/or antitrust conduct). Gonzalez has already explicitly revoked your statement. > "While the Court finds that Apple enjoys considerable market share of over 55% and extraordinarily high profit margins, these factors alone do not show antitrust conduct," Gonzalez Rogers said. "The Court does not find that it is impossible; only that Epic Games failed in its burden to demonstrate Apple is an illegal monopolist."
  - _zoltan_ 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    “Official entities” also don’t get to judge whether Apple is a legal monopoly - the courts would still decide. And if you haven’t been paying attention - government lawyers haven’t been doing too great lately making cases against BigTech. Yet, HN posters are sure that Apple is a monopoly. Did their high price lawyers miss something that HN posters found?
- owisd 3y ago
  Not ruled a monopoly only in the market of digital mobile gaming transactions. But it’s not illegal to be a monopoly, the judge still ruled they broke competition law by banning Epic from linking to their own store front.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    And yet the judge let the ban stand…
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
ecf 3y ago
I cannot imagine the effect a ruling like this would have on businesses if you actually got your way. It would very clearly lay out that investing in an ecosystem of hardware products and doing it well will only result in all that investment, time, energy, employee sweat and tears, ALL OF IT, to be rendered useless. Basically setting an entire business on fire. Quite frankly I find it ridiculous people here are even suggesting this.
- arrosenberg 3y ago
  That's hysterical. If I had my way, Apple would be required by law to allow fair and reasonable pricing, alternate app stores, as well as transparency in whatever bureaucratic decisions they make. They'd still make an absurd amount of money on their hardware. I find it ridiculous that we allow a private company to act as regulator over any sector of the economy, let alone one they have over 50% market share in.
  - ecf 3y ago
    > I find it ridiculous that we allow a private company to act as regulator over any sector of the economy, let alone one they have over 50% market share in. If you feel that way then there are countries with economic models that don’t allow this. Venezuela comes to mind. Maybe you should relocate there so you can experience the outcome of heavy handed government control.
    - arrosenberg 3y ago
      Again with the hysterical straw man. Right now I'm experiencing the outcome of heavy handed corporate control. There are a whole range of outcomes between that and full state control of the markets. Do you believe that competitive markets are good? The App Store isn't one, I'm advocating for more competition, more trade and prosperity.
      - ecf 3y ago
        > Right now I'm experiencing the outcome of heavy handed corporate control Except, you’re not? Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to use an iPhone. There are other options instead of crying on the internet about how bad Apple is.

scarface_74 3y ago

Luckily, we have a real judge in a real court in the Epic vs Apple lawsuit where the judge said that Apple isn’t a monopoly.

hgs3 3y ago
Let's say you're right and Apple is not a monopoly under current antitrust laws, then all that proves is the laws are too lax.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  It’s not about me being right, it’s about what a real judge says.
  - hgs3 3y ago
    Let's say the Judge* is right and Apple is not a monopoly under current antitrust laws, then all that proves is the laws are too lax.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      Or it might prove that the current antitrust laws correctly deal with trusts. And that if we want new laws, to be e.g. about "each platform must be open to third parties" regardless of market share, we need to push for them and get them, not abuse antitrust laws for something they weren't meant to cover.
summerlight 3y ago
Please do not distort the court decision. No official entities (such as FTC or DoJ) were involved in this case, it's just a private firm that failed to prove Apple's illegal monopoly (which is also different from market monopoly and/or antitrust conduct). Gonzalez has already explicitly revoked your statement. > "While the Court finds that Apple enjoys considerable market share of over 55% and extraordinarily high profit margins, these factors alone do not show antitrust conduct," Gonzalez Rogers said. "The Court does not find that it is impossible; only that Epic Games failed in its burden to demonstrate Apple is an illegal monopolist."
- _zoltan_ 3y ago
  [flagged]
- scarface_74 3y ago
  “Official entities” also don’t get to judge whether Apple is a legal monopoly - the courts would still decide. And if you haven’t been paying attention - government lawyers haven’t been doing too great lately making cases against BigTech. Yet, HN posters are sure that Apple is a monopoly. Did their high price lawyers miss something that HN posters found?
owisd 3y ago
Not ruled a monopoly only in the market of digital mobile gaming transactions. But it’s not illegal to be a monopoly, the judge still ruled they broke competition law by banning Epic from linking to their own store front.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  And yet the judge let the ban stand…
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

ecf 3y ago

I cannot imagine the effect a ruling like this would have on businesses if you actually got your way. It would very clearly lay out that investing in an ecosystem of hardware products and doing it well will only result in all that investment, time, energy, employee sweat and tears, ALL OF IT, to be rendered useless. Basically setting an entire business on fire. Quite frankly I find it ridiculous people here are even suggesting this.

arrosenberg 3y ago
That's hysterical. If I had my way, Apple would be required by law to allow fair and reasonable pricing, alternate app stores, as well as transparency in whatever bureaucratic decisions they make. They'd still make an absurd amount of money on their hardware. I find it ridiculous that we allow a private company to act as regulator over any sector of the economy, let alone one they have over 50% market share in.
- ecf 3y ago
  > I find it ridiculous that we allow a private company to act as regulator over any sector of the economy, let alone one they have over 50% market share in. If you feel that way then there are countries with economic models that don’t allow this. Venezuela comes to mind. Maybe you should relocate there so you can experience the outcome of heavy handed government control.
  - arrosenberg 3y ago
    Again with the hysterical straw man. Right now I'm experiencing the outcome of heavy handed corporate control. There are a whole range of outcomes between that and full state control of the markets. Do you believe that competitive markets are good? The App Store isn't one, I'm advocating for more competition, more trade and prosperity.
    - ecf 3y ago
      > Right now I'm experiencing the outcome of heavy handed corporate control Except, you’re not? Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to use an iPhone. There are other options instead of crying on the internet about how bad Apple is.