4 ms·

I have never observed that, given free choice, people prefer to associate with people that are unlike them. When you've recently immigrated to the US from a for

I have never observed that, given free choice, people prefer to associate with people that are unlike them. When you've recently immigrated to the US from a foreign country, you don't think "finally, I'm away from my countrymen, I can't wait to form a work group of zero people who speak my language and don't understand any of my assumptions and references." When you're planning a high school party, you don't think "me and my friends are on the football team, so we'd better not invite too many football players and will be sure to invite the comp sci guys, the band kids, the theater kids, and the stoners." That said, I do agree with the meta-implication of this paper, which is that it's bad for society at large when the classes don't encounter each other socially at all.

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
Wanna bet? Before I moved to the US, my grandfather explicitly told me to avoid associating with people from my home country. He had reasons and he wasn't wrong!
anigbrowl 3y ago
I'd say you should observe more. I've lived in multiple countries and have zero desire to seek out members of my default peer group. I frankly do not understand people who move abroad and then want to spend all their time hanging out with other expats.
mikeyouse 3y ago
I think you're thinking too narrowly -- some of the most popular neighborhoods in many cities are the very specific cultural ones (e.g. K-Town in LA, the Mission in SF, Chinatown in NYC, etc) where people from all backgrounds meet and mingle. You might go there with a few coworkers that are the same age/race/sex as you, but a big part of the reason that you don't stay on your block is for the diversity of experience. Rec sports are another good avenue where your 5-a-aside soccer team might be very homogenous but the league obviously isn't.
- colechristensen 3y ago
  It didn't feel like "meet and mingle" in the mission... more like a strange outlandish transition from people living in tents on the street and three blocks away Valencia street filled with nice shops and restaurants. Walking to work was like "oh this is nice" interspersed with needles and feces in the sidewalk.
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    Yeah, the experience is obviously different if you're at 16th and Mission compared to 24th and Folsom -- but there's a reason the neighborhood has been one of the more desirable in SF despite the very visible problems.
- SomethingNew2 3y ago
  I believe this is a topic where many people have predefined narratives they repeat. The comments above are about the benefits and costs of diversity (different but informed opinions), yet the non-narrative fitting opinion is downvoted. In my experience diversity provides access to new ideas and a variety of experiences through the people you meet. However there are also costs to diversity which shouldn’t be ignored. Communication is more challenging in diverse groups. Also values, beliefs, and norms vary more in a diverse group. That’s beneficial for those looking to expand their understanding of others and the world. However it also means less cohesiveness within the group which reduces feelings of belonging. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. There are similar trade offs in building technology. Having access to a wide variety of frameworks and technologies helps you learn more ideas and discover better ways to do things. However groups also create standards which allow for interoperability. Pros and cons.
- SomethingNew2 3y ago
  Agree. But also if Chinatown wasn’t founded by one group it wouldn’t be Chinatown. When we are appreciating a culture, that culture is a set of values, norms, and beliefs that are consistent, not diverse.
  - 3y ago
BowBun 3y ago
I have observed exactly what you're describing. Even as an introvert, I see the value in and seek out those experiences every once in a while. I imagine extroverts probably do so even more. My own mother is another example - she's an immigrant to the US and 20 years later still loves meeting 'real' Americans to learn more about the quirks of this country. As another sibling comment mentions, we also all seek out products, foods, and experiences belonging to other cultures/groups. Even without getting into the meta, all of this mixing up is important so that Kelly in Texas can try Pho or John in Minnesota can eat BBQ. Finally, your high school example, as I got older I chuckle more about the cliques of grade-school and now find myself approaching the jocks that I never would have before to see how they turned out. I've heard that a few times, though I've heard the opposite like you're saying as well. All in all, both of us have had very anecdotal experiences. We should be careful not to generalize _millions_ based on one experience.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rdtsc 3y ago
> When you've recently immigrated to the US from a foreign country, you don't think "finally, I'm away from my countrymen, I can't wait to form a work group of zero people who speak my language and don't understand any of my assumptions and references." Some people have been hurt or persecuted by their "countrymen" and they'd rather put on a cowboy hat and go have a bbq and a beer than continue hanging out with their countrymen. The issue is you won't see them, because they won't live or hang out in a segregated *-town communities. You may find them in an average home, in some average town, going to average grocery stores and so on.
- FredPret 3y ago
  Not sure why you're downvoted. Both phenomena (*-town immigrants and cowboy-hat immigrants) happen all the time. I'm an immigrant in the latter camp, though I moved to Canada, not the USA.
- VirusNewbie 3y ago
  Right, anecdotally first generation middle class mexicans are extremely patriotic. Sometimes even to the extreme (maga and all that).

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago

Wanna bet? Before I moved to the US, my grandfather explicitly told me to avoid associating with people from my home country. He had reasons and he wasn't wrong!

anigbrowl 3y ago

I'd say you should observe more. I've lived in multiple countries and have zero desire to seek out members of my default peer group. I frankly do not understand people who move abroad and then want to spend all their time hanging out with other expats.

mikeyouse 3y ago

I think you're thinking too narrowly -- some of the most popular neighborhoods in many cities are the very specific cultural ones (e.g. K-Town in LA, the Mission in SF, Chinatown in NYC, etc) where people from all backgrounds meet and mingle. You might go there with a few coworkers that are the same age/race/sex as you, but a big part of the reason that you don't stay on your block is for the diversity of experience. Rec sports are another good avenue where your 5-a-aside soccer team might be very homogenous but the league obviously isn't.

colechristensen 3y ago
It didn't feel like "meet and mingle" in the mission... more like a strange outlandish transition from people living in tents on the street and three blocks away Valencia street filled with nice shops and restaurants. Walking to work was like "oh this is nice" interspersed with needles and feces in the sidewalk.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Yeah, the experience is obviously different if you're at 16th and Mission compared to 24th and Folsom -- but there's a reason the neighborhood has been one of the more desirable in SF despite the very visible problems.
SomethingNew2 3y ago
I believe this is a topic where many people have predefined narratives they repeat. The comments above are about the benefits and costs of diversity (different but informed opinions), yet the non-narrative fitting opinion is downvoted. In my experience diversity provides access to new ideas and a variety of experiences through the people you meet. However there are also costs to diversity which shouldn’t be ignored. Communication is more challenging in diverse groups. Also values, beliefs, and norms vary more in a diverse group. That’s beneficial for those looking to expand their understanding of others and the world. However it also means less cohesiveness within the group which reduces feelings of belonging. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. There are similar trade offs in building technology. Having access to a wide variety of frameworks and technologies helps you learn more ideas and discover better ways to do things. However groups also create standards which allow for interoperability. Pros and cons.
SomethingNew2 3y ago
Agree. But also if Chinatown wasn’t founded by one group it wouldn’t be Chinatown. When we are appreciating a culture, that culture is a set of values, norms, and beliefs that are consistent, not diverse.
- 3y ago

BowBun 3y ago

I have observed exactly what you're describing. Even as an introvert, I see the value in and seek out those experiences every once in a while. I imagine extroverts probably do so even more. My own mother is another example - she's an immigrant to the US and 20 years later still loves meeting 'real' Americans to learn more about the quirks of this country. As another sibling comment mentions, we also all seek out products, foods, and experiences belonging to other cultures/groups. Even without getting into the meta, all of this mixing up is important so that Kelly in Texas can try Pho or John in Minnesota can eat BBQ. Finally, your high school example, as I got older I chuckle more about the cliques of grade-school and now find myself approaching the jocks that I never would have before to see how they turned out. I've heard that a few times, though I've heard the opposite like you're saying as well. All in all, both of us have had very anecdotal experiences. We should be careful not to generalize _millions_ based on one experience.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

rdtsc 3y ago

> When you've recently immigrated to the US from a foreign country, you don't think "finally, I'm away from my countrymen, I can't wait to form a work group of zero people who speak my language and don't understand any of my assumptions and references." Some people have been hurt or persecuted by their "countrymen" and they'd rather put on a cowboy hat and go have a bbq and a beer than continue hanging out with their countrymen. The issue is you won't see them, because they won't live or hang out in a segregated *-town communities. You may find them in an average home, in some average town, going to average grocery stores and so on.

FredPret 3y ago
Not sure why you're downvoted. Both phenomena (*-town immigrants and cowboy-hat immigrants) happen all the time. I'm an immigrant in the latter camp, though I moved to Canada, not the USA.
VirusNewbie 3y ago
Right, anecdotally first generation middle class mexicans are extremely patriotic. Sometimes even to the extreme (maga and all that).