4 ms·

You need proof of address too, it's not enough to have just an ID. A passport is good, but you should also be aware that not everyone has a passport or drivers

by dijit 3y ago

You need proof of address too, it's not enough to have just an ID. A passport is good, but you should also be aware that not everyone has a passport or drivers license. (for example: I didn't when I got my first bank account). My first bank account was a deal my mother made with the bank where she acted as guarantor. having a right to a thing is not the same as actually getting it; there is a lot of anti-fraud legislation that exists and must be complied with. The bank isn't just going to fully open an account with nothing but an ID. I can say that with absolute confidence after working in financial services (albeit briefly).

ghaff 3y ago
When I got a RealID-compliant driver's license a few years ago in my state in the US, an existing driver's license and passport were not sufficient. I needed some document to server as proof of my current address, such as a utility bill. I don't remember what all the options were but, yes, some people--including kids getting their first driver's license or people sharing an apartment who don't have their name on a lease--can run into issues.
- Aaargh20318 3y ago
  In the Netherlands, the government already keeps track of everyone’s address. If you move, you have to register your new address with the municipality within a certain time frame. (IIRC 2 weeks)
  - someplaceguy 3y ago
    Yes, and that gets really "interesting" when you don't have a stable address of residence (e.g. because you are traveling for an extended period of time, possibly in-and-out of the country). In some cases, you can get basically locked out of all essential services, including bank account closures, not being able to make payments (especially now with these laws), etc. Real fun!
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    Jesus that's freaky. Talk about government overreach.
    - throwaway2037 3y ago
      What country do you live in? For many highly developed democracies, this is normal and not scary.
      - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        Currently the US, but formerly Australia, Ireland, Scotland, Germany and Canada. I've never had to register my address anywhere unless I have a drivers license.
        mrunkel 3y ago
        > Germany You broke the law if you were a resident of Germany and didn't register yourself.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        Well, that sucks. Then again, shitty laws don't deserve to be followed. You think Europe would have learned a thing or two from WW2 and what was going down on the continent. I guess some behaviors are just too culturally ingrained.
        SergeAx 3y ago
        > shitty laws don't deserve to be followed You mean, you have to be ready to be punished for breaqking shitty laws just to point to their shittiness.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        > You mean, you have to be ready to be punished for breaqking shitty laws just to point to their shittiness. Sure, but in my case nothing happened, so, meh?
  - ghaff 3y ago
    The US is sort of loosey-goosey partly because we're not real big on getting registered with authorities and partly because the states have their own jurisdictions. So, if you're legitimately a digital nomad you sort of would have to do one or more things that are probably in a quasi-gray legal area so you can get ID and not be considered a tax evader.
oliwarner 3y ago
It varies wildly between banks. Proof of address isn't a systemic requirement, it's a soft credit check that unlocks profitable functions. Many banks (Santander, HSBC just two I checked) have entry points for people who are genuinely homeless. And accepted ID can include simple government things like council tax or a driver's license, but also just a letter from your employer or school. Again these are soft checks.
Aaargh20318 3y ago
> You need proof of address too, it's not enough to have just an ID. Yes, but you don’t need a bill for that, you can just get it from the municipality where you are registered. > A passport is good, but you should also be aware that not everyone has a passport or drivers license. Anyone age 14 and up is required by law to be able to show an ID when asked. So yeah, everyone here has an ID. > My first bank account was a deal my mother made with the bank where she acted as guarantor. The rules for children are different. Once you turn 18 you need to ID yourself to the bank. If you don’t do this your account will be blocked. You will be informed of this shortly before you turn 18. > having a right to a thing is not the same as actually getting it; there is a lot of anti-fraud legislation that exists and must be complied with. The bank isn't just going to fully open an account with nothing but an ID You have a right to a basic account, not necessarily full service. You can send/receive money and get a debit card. Anything else, credit cards, loans, etc. are of course not included. And sure, if you’ve been convicted of fraud or anything like that, that’s an exception.
- someplaceguy 3y ago
  > Yes, but you don’t need a bill for that, you can just get it from the municipality where you are registered. Yeah, that's not how it works in all European countries. Which can get really "interesting" in some cases, believe me (I've lived through that). I've also been requested proof of employment, which is also interesting when you're unemployed. In one of the countries, they said I can just give them proof of unemployment benefits... which I don't have, because I left my job willingly. And then they told me: "well, in that case you can get proof of unemployment from the municipality". Except... that I'm not even living in your damn country and the municipality where I live doesn't even know whether I'm working or not (why would they?!). But this does not even compare to all the problems I've had when I've not been living in the same place stably for an extended period of time. It has been an absolute hell in some cases, because institutions (governments, banks, lawyers, etc) simply do not account for this possibility. They all assume that you have a stable address of residence. In some countries you can't even receive some types of registered mail unless it is addressed exactly to where you are staying at that moment. > You have a right to a basic account, not necessarily full service. I don't think that's how it works. The governments have created a legal requirement for banks to provide minimum banking services, yes. But banks still have to comply with many other very strict requirements and customers may not be able to fulfill them, which prevents them from opening bank accounts.

by dijit 3y ago

ghaff 3y ago

When I got a RealID-compliant driver's license a few years ago in my state in the US, an existing driver's license and passport were not sufficient. I needed some document to server as proof of my current address, such as a utility bill. I don't remember what all the options were but, yes, some people--including kids getting their first driver's license or people sharing an apartment who don't have their name on a lease--can run into issues.

Aaargh20318 3y ago
In the Netherlands, the government already keeps track of everyone’s address. If you move, you have to register your new address with the municipality within a certain time frame. (IIRC 2 weeks)
- someplaceguy 3y ago
  Yes, and that gets really "interesting" when you don't have a stable address of residence (e.g. because you are traveling for an extended period of time, possibly in-and-out of the country). In some cases, you can get basically locked out of all essential services, including bank account closures, not being able to make payments (especially now with these laws), etc. Real fun!
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Jesus that's freaky. Talk about government overreach.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    What country do you live in? For many highly developed democracies, this is normal and not scary.
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      Currently the US, but formerly Australia, Ireland, Scotland, Germany and Canada. I've never had to register my address anywhere unless I have a drivers license.
      - mrunkel 3y ago
        > Germany You broke the law if you were a resident of Germany and didn't register yourself.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        Well, that sucks. Then again, shitty laws don't deserve to be followed. You think Europe would have learned a thing or two from WW2 and what was going down on the continent. I guess some behaviors are just too culturally ingrained.
        SergeAx 3y ago
        > shitty laws don't deserve to be followed You mean, you have to be ready to be punished for breaqking shitty laws just to point to their shittiness.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        > You mean, you have to be ready to be punished for breaqking shitty laws just to point to their shittiness. Sure, but in my case nothing happened, so, meh?
- ghaff 3y ago
  The US is sort of loosey-goosey partly because we're not real big on getting registered with authorities and partly because the states have their own jurisdictions. So, if you're legitimately a digital nomad you sort of would have to do one or more things that are probably in a quasi-gray legal area so you can get ID and not be considered a tax evader.

oliwarner 3y ago

It varies wildly between banks. Proof of address isn't a systemic requirement, it's a soft credit check that unlocks profitable functions. Many banks (Santander, HSBC just two I checked) have entry points for people who are genuinely homeless. And accepted ID can include simple government things like council tax or a driver's license, but also just a letter from your employer or school. Again these are soft checks.

Aaargh20318 3y ago

> You need proof of address too, it's not enough to have just an ID. Yes, but you don’t need a bill for that, you can just get it from the municipality where you are registered. > A passport is good, but you should also be aware that not everyone has a passport or drivers license. Anyone age 14 and up is required by law to be able to show an ID when asked. So yeah, everyone here has an ID. > My first bank account was a deal my mother made with the bank where she acted as guarantor. The rules for children are different. Once you turn 18 you need to ID yourself to the bank. If you don’t do this your account will be blocked. You will be informed of this shortly before you turn 18. > having a right to a thing is not the same as actually getting it; there is a lot of anti-fraud legislation that exists and must be complied with. The bank isn't just going to fully open an account with nothing but an ID You have a right to a basic account, not necessarily full service. You can send/receive money and get a debit card. Anything else, credit cards, loans, etc. are of course not included. And sure, if you’ve been convicted of fraud or anything like that, that’s an exception.

someplaceguy 3y ago
> Yes, but you don’t need a bill for that, you can just get it from the municipality where you are registered. Yeah, that's not how it works in all European countries. Which can get really "interesting" in some cases, believe me (I've lived through that). I've also been requested proof of employment, which is also interesting when you're unemployed. In one of the countries, they said I can just give them proof of unemployment benefits... which I don't have, because I left my job willingly. And then they told me: "well, in that case you can get proof of unemployment from the municipality". Except... that I'm not even living in your damn country and the municipality where I live doesn't even know whether I'm working or not (why would they?!). But this does not even compare to all the problems I've had when I've not been living in the same place stably for an extended period of time. It has been an absolute hell in some cases, because institutions (governments, banks, lawyers, etc) simply do not account for this possibility. They all assume that you have a stable address of residence. In some countries you can't even receive some types of registered mail unless it is addressed exactly to where you are staying at that moment. > You have a right to a basic account, not necessarily full service. I don't think that's how it works. The governments have created a legal requirement for banks to provide minimum banking services, yes. But banks still have to comply with many other very strict requirements and customers may not be able to fulfill them, which prevents them from opening bank accounts.