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It’s absolutely wild to see people making comments like the one you replied to. Are people so eager to have Daddy Government monitoring their every move, decidi

It’s absolutely wild to see people making comments like the one you replied to. Are people so eager to have Daddy Government monitoring their every move, deciding how they’re allowed to spend their money? Europeans seem to have Stockholm Syndrome, a fetish for authoritarianism of their preferred flavor. It feels like the entire continent is one big HOA, deciding what color you can paint your house, or what flowers you can plant outside, to “preserve congruency in the neighborhood”. It’s honestly a bit concerning seeing how pacified and apathetic people become about government overreach when it doesn’t affect them directly (yet).

Radim 3y ago
> Europeans seem to have Stockholm Syndrome, a fetish for authoritarianism of their preferred flavor. Not all of us! Please trim your paintbrush. Europe comprises dozens of countries, with hundreds of millions of people. My personal divorce from "banking with will-you-think-of-the-children-and-oh-all-the-nasty-criminals" here in CZ happened when I went to withdraw ~14k USD in cash. My Fio bank, that I've been with for 10+ years, asked me, "what do you need the money for?" After collecting my jaw from the floor my answer was of course "none of your business". But the clerk claimed to be "just following the law" (maybe true, I wouldn't know on the spot), that they cannot give me my money without a valid reason. So I said "I want to withdraw it in order to keep it in cash" (doh!). They made a face and said that's not a valid reason. So I asked what is a valid reason then? Is there a list that I can see and choose from? They made a face again and said no, but suggested – trying to be helpful – that most people say "I want to buy a car". Yet I wasn't buying a car and having to lie about this – being advised to lie so a bureaucrat can tick some children-saved-criminals-thwarted checkbox – felt quite surreal. A Kafka-esque exchange. Especially when everybody knows the real money laundering is done by government officials & government-adjacent crooks – in CZ and in every other country under the sun. In the end I got angry and said I'm about to buy a lot of dog food and refused to budge. They backed down, and I learned a very important lesson about "my" money that day.
nikanj 3y ago
And Americans have the opposite problem, where they’d rather have an incredible list of social issues than a government. I guess it comes down to perspective: is it fair to force everyone to pay their taxes?
- cooper_ganglia 3y ago
  It isn't a matter of forcing people to pay taxes, and the fact that so many people in this thread keep going back to the same point is a frightening prospect to me. The US has plenty of our own issues with addressing social issues, but I'd rather the entire country implode due to social issues rather than the government forcibly controlling everyone's purchases and tracking their every movement for the greater good of society. Americans hate laws like this in the US because we've already sacrificed liberties for security with things like The Patriot Act, and all it got us was our own government spying on it's citizens communication. Expanding the scope of how the government is allowed to forcibly direct or interfere in your life is generally a bad idea, even if the people you support politically make it look sexy and cool.
  - nikanj 3y ago
    We keep going back to taxes, because that’s what it’s really about. People get on the soap box for a passionate gospel about personal freedoms, facism and unalienable liberties - but actually they’re mostly mad that they gotta pay taxes for their nails & gardening now
    - cooper_ganglia 3y ago
      For me personally, I think the discussion about taxes in this context is a distraction at best. How long before cash is banned altogether, in the name of "making sure everyone pays their taxes"? That doesn't seem like a solution, that seems like oppressing a populace while making them think it was their own idea. Governments worldwide have been trending towards being more authoritarian, and I see outlawing cash purchases of any amount as an incredibly easy way to begin clamping down on the use of untraceable fiat currency.

Radim 3y ago

> Europeans seem to have Stockholm Syndrome, a fetish for authoritarianism of their preferred flavor. Not all of us! Please trim your paintbrush. Europe comprises dozens of countries, with hundreds of millions of people. My personal divorce from "banking with will-you-think-of-the-children-and-oh-all-the-nasty-criminals" here in CZ happened when I went to withdraw ~14k USD in cash. My Fio bank, that I've been with for 10+ years, asked me, "what do you need the money for?" After collecting my jaw from the floor my answer was of course "none of your business". But the clerk claimed to be "just following the law" (maybe true, I wouldn't know on the spot), that they cannot give me my money without a valid reason. So I said "I want to withdraw it in order to keep it in cash" (doh!). They made a face and said that's not a valid reason. So I asked what is a valid reason then? Is there a list that I can see and choose from? They made a face again and said no, but suggested – trying to be helpful – that most people say "I want to buy a car". Yet I wasn't buying a car and having to lie about this – being advised to lie so a bureaucrat can tick some children-saved-criminals-thwarted checkbox – felt quite surreal. A Kafka-esque exchange. Especially when everybody knows the real money laundering is done by government officials & government-adjacent crooks – in CZ and in every other country under the sun. In the end I got angry and said I'm about to buy a lot of dog food and refused to budge. They backed down, and I learned a very important lesson about "my" money that day.

nikanj 3y ago

And Americans have the opposite problem, where they’d rather have an incredible list of social issues than a government. I guess it comes down to perspective: is it fair to force everyone to pay their taxes?

cooper_ganglia 3y ago
It isn't a matter of forcing people to pay taxes, and the fact that so many people in this thread keep going back to the same point is a frightening prospect to me. The US has plenty of our own issues with addressing social issues, but I'd rather the entire country implode due to social issues rather than the government forcibly controlling everyone's purchases and tracking their every movement for the greater good of society. Americans hate laws like this in the US because we've already sacrificed liberties for security with things like The Patriot Act, and all it got us was our own government spying on it's citizens communication. Expanding the scope of how the government is allowed to forcibly direct or interfere in your life is generally a bad idea, even if the people you support politically make it look sexy and cool.
- nikanj 3y ago
  We keep going back to taxes, because that’s what it’s really about. People get on the soap box for a passionate gospel about personal freedoms, facism and unalienable liberties - but actually they’re mostly mad that they gotta pay taxes for their nails & gardening now
  - cooper_ganglia 3y ago
    For me personally, I think the discussion about taxes in this context is a distraction at best. How long before cash is banned altogether, in the name of "making sure everyone pays their taxes"? That doesn't seem like a solution, that seems like oppressing a populace while making them think it was their own idea. Governments worldwide have been trending towards being more authoritarian, and I see outlawing cash purchases of any amount as an incredibly easy way to begin clamping down on the use of untraceable fiat currency.