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Why do I get the feeling that you hope for this outcome, from this comment? And maybe you never visited the Netherlands? By the way, the boiling frog thing has

by mdrzn 3y ago

Why do I get the feeling that you hope for this outcome, from this comment? And maybe you never visited the Netherlands? By the way, the boiling frog thing has been debunked many times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

me_me_me 3y ago
you will see, next they will start dismantling roads and start putting in bicycle infrastructure, horrors!
- dealuromanet 3y ago
  Gleeful at no more easy transport in or out, eh? Will the regime, I mean The Party, oops I mean The Cabinet, also be removing the noise cameras installed along the roads when they remove the roads? Or are those going to be kept there to protect the people from ideological deviants?
  - gambiting 3y ago
    >>also be removing the noise cameras installed along the roads when they remove the roads? Why would they be paying for upkeep of cameras that do absolutely nothing?
    - dealuromanet 3y ago
      What do you mean they do nothing? They have a redundant microphone array that can track sound with high precision and a camera that can be used to automatically issue fines. Just point the hardware at the people walking about or congregating and see who is saying things The Cabinet doesn't like to hear. Or maybe even who isn't saying enough of what the Cabinet wants to hear. Why get rid of a perfectly functioning and deployed surveillance apparatus?
      - gambiting 3y ago
        You realize someone would actually need to repurpose them to do such things, operation which would cost money and technical know how, right? They don't come with those capabilities out of the box. It's just such a weird argument that you're making. It's like saying that once roads disappear all the speed cameras are going to be repurposed to take pictures of you walking about to match facial data or something. Technically possible I suppose, but given how these things work it might as well be sci-fi. Government would have to scrap the entire system and buy new devices that do what you suggest, and that's where the whole idea will fail.
        me_me_me 3y ago
        this thinking stems from different political environment. In EU we still have some power over politicians. US with its cemented dual party is basically a fasade of democracy. Thats why US people are so anti government. Everything is always set in us vs them context. Lets hope this trend will not affect eu countries too much.
        dmix 3y ago
        Your position is that there is less unchecked power overreach in Europe? The famous home of the 'nanny state'?
        gambiting 3y ago
        Of course. That's my position as well. The difference is that in EU the "nanny state overreach" is usually what people actual want and has large democratic support. In US it's like the country shouts super loud about how free everyone is and then you have the real unchecked overreach in every single corner of the government and law enforcement. So yes, of course there's less unchecked overreach in EU(not in Europe).
dealuromanet 3y ago
> Why do I get the feeling that you hope for this outcome, from this comment? I do not hope for it. But if it happens, may it serve as a warning and example to everyone else who has freedom and does not currently cherish it enough. I know that what happened to the truckers in Canada when they had their electronic assets frozen certainly woke up people in Canada to a degree.
wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
I live in the NL. And even though OP is too dramatic. The fact is that much of the world news Snowden was revealing already, was common practice in Netherlands for a while before that; and it was publically accepted. For instance they could & can eaves drop on your phonecalls without any warrant needed from an independent judge. They just need approval from a commission they can create themselves: https://www.aivd.nl/onderwerpen/afluisteren https://www.aivd.nl/onderwerpen/afluisteren. There is definitely a big issue with the Government having too much power, lack of independent checks, and being hard to hold them responsible.
ilyt 3y ago
> By the way, the boiling frog thing has been debunked many times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog It seems to work well for things other than frogs, like normalizing microtransactions and gambling in video games.

by mdrzn 3y ago

me_me_me 3y ago

you will see, next they will start dismantling roads and start putting in bicycle infrastructure, horrors!

dealuromanet 3y ago
Gleeful at no more easy transport in or out, eh? Will the regime, I mean The Party, oops I mean The Cabinet, also be removing the noise cameras installed along the roads when they remove the roads? Or are those going to be kept there to protect the people from ideological deviants?
- gambiting 3y ago
  >>also be removing the noise cameras installed along the roads when they remove the roads? Why would they be paying for upkeep of cameras that do absolutely nothing?
  - dealuromanet 3y ago
    What do you mean they do nothing? They have a redundant microphone array that can track sound with high precision and a camera that can be used to automatically issue fines. Just point the hardware at the people walking about or congregating and see who is saying things The Cabinet doesn't like to hear. Or maybe even who isn't saying enough of what the Cabinet wants to hear. Why get rid of a perfectly functioning and deployed surveillance apparatus?
    - gambiting 3y ago
      You realize someone would actually need to repurpose them to do such things, operation which would cost money and technical know how, right? They don't come with those capabilities out of the box. It's just such a weird argument that you're making. It's like saying that once roads disappear all the speed cameras are going to be repurposed to take pictures of you walking about to match facial data or something. Technically possible I suppose, but given how these things work it might as well be sci-fi. Government would have to scrap the entire system and buy new devices that do what you suggest, and that's where the whole idea will fail.
      - me_me_me 3y ago
        this thinking stems from different political environment. In EU we still have some power over politicians. US with its cemented dual party is basically a fasade of democracy. Thats why US people are so anti government. Everything is always set in us vs them context. Lets hope this trend will not affect eu countries too much.
        dmix 3y ago
        Your position is that there is less unchecked power overreach in Europe? The famous home of the 'nanny state'?
        gambiting 3y ago
        Of course. That's my position as well. The difference is that in EU the "nanny state overreach" is usually what people actual want and has large democratic support. In US it's like the country shouts super loud about how free everyone is and then you have the real unchecked overreach in every single corner of the government and law enforcement. So yes, of course there's less unchecked overreach in EU(not in Europe).

dealuromanet 3y ago

> Why do I get the feeling that you hope for this outcome, from this comment? I do not hope for it. But if it happens, may it serve as a warning and example to everyone else who has freedom and does not currently cherish it enough. I know that what happened to the truckers in Canada when they had their electronic assets frozen certainly woke up people in Canada to a degree.

wouldbecouldbe 3y ago

I live in the NL. And even though OP is too dramatic. The fact is that much of the world news Snowden was revealing already, was common practice in Netherlands for a while before that; and it was publically accepted. For instance they could & can eaves drop on your phonecalls without any warrant needed from an independent judge. They just need approval from a commission they can create themselves: https://www.aivd.nl/onderwerpen/afluisteren https://www.aivd.nl/onderwerpen/afluisteren. There is definitely a big issue with the Government having too much power, lack of independent checks, and being hard to hold them responsible.

ilyt 3y ago

> By the way, the boiling frog thing has been debunked many times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog It seems to work well for things other than frogs, like normalizing microtransactions and gambling in video games.