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My personal experience: - MacOS user experience: Terrible. It feels like Linux did 10 years ago. Bugs and inconsistencies everywhere. But hey, they are competi

My personal experience: - MacOS user experience: Terrible. It feels like Linux did 10 years ago. Bugs and inconsistencies everywhere. But hey, they are competing with W11 so, no need to improve it either. Forced updates and restarts. And, did I mention bugs and inconsistencies everywhere? - M2 Computational performance: It feels like my laptop 10 years ago. - M2 Batterly life performance: It is absolutely brilliant, but, I also work 80% of the time at a fixed desk, so, it's mostly only relevant when traveling. I'm sure a lot of devs use them because they like them. But, your argument that ARM64 is "good architecture" whatever vagueness that entails, is pretty much bollocks. Compile time performance is ok at best compared to other laptop CPUs (the fastest laptop Mx hardware is about half of the laptop competition, and that's just comparing CPU). The package management coherence is non existent, so everything is slow to start because everything ships a complete stack of libraries that need to be read from disk and copied in memory. I honestly believe that people who are blown away by the Mx hardware have simply lived too long in the walled garden to know what is out there. In summary: MacBooks are decent hardware, with exceptional battery life. Priced at 50% would make sense. And the OS experience is somewhere between mediocre to garbage. Ran an identical GPU workload on AMD hardware with dedicated GPU. - 3 year old desktop AMD hardware: 50 seconds (1x) - 1.5 year old laptop AMD hardware: 66 seconds. (1.32x) - Latest M2 Pro 12 core: 142 seconds. (2.84x) For CPU-only tasks. 1x, 1.9x 1.7x. So, the M2 Pro 12 core is about 2x slower than a one year older AMD laptop for GPU tasks, and about the same for CPU only tasks. And the latest AMD Laptop CPU is twice as fast as the one I used.

kaba0 3y ago
I honestly can’t take you seriously when you write shit like “Linux did 10 years ago”..
- okamiueru 3y ago
  Let's see: - Alt+Tab is bugged. You need a third party app to bring consistent behaviour. - Closing a window with window decorator very often minimizes it instead, no consistency. - Recording or capturing screenshot is tedious without a third party app - Homebrew is underwhelming as a package manager. It feels like Linux package managers did around 20 year ago. - No global shortcut key to trigger arbitrary commands (you need a third party app). Like, starting a terminal. - Bad support for external keyboard. Dead keys everywhere that have otherwise consistent meaning (delete, home, end, etc). The kinda stuff that could happen on Linux 10 years ago. - No sensible support for external mouse, such as scrolling behaviour is stuck to what would make sense for the trackpad, and feels bad on a mouse. You need to install a third party app to handle this. - No copy/cut paste in file manager. You need to drag and drop like a primate. - Oh, and finder, in general, is bad at almost all the things a file manager should be good at. But, someone somewhere at apple decided that labels trumps hierarchical file structures, to navigate a hierarchical file system. - Built in advertisements for apple products pop up from time to time. - "I guess I won't start working right now because MacOS is installing a mandatory update" has already happened. - Bypassing security check to launch app, as in the "open anyway" is bugged since 2016, but it's still there. And you can click on it without it doing anything. You have to google the command to disable the whole app audit thing and run it in a terminal. (You know, the kind of stuff you had to do on Linux 10 years ago). - Moving windows around is tedious without a third party app. - Accessing the root file system through Finder requires googling how and running a command on the terminal (you know, the kind of stuff you had to do on Linux 10 years ago). This list is just the annoyances noticed this week, and I'm sure I've forgotten quite a few. It feels like crap, and it's not because "apple bad, buu huu". I don't care about your team/my team. I just want things to work and not be annoying. Windows 10 and 11 is crap for many of the same reasons as MacOS. Just a different collection of bad designs. The "it just works" has been Linux for at least the last 5 years.
  - rekoil 3y ago
    You're working really hard to make this stuff upp mate. > Alt+Tab is bugged. You need a third party app to bring consistent behaviour. It's Cmd+Tab, and huh? What do you mean bugged? Elaborate please. > Closing a window with window decorator very often minimizes it instead, no consistency. This is app-specific functionality, you'll find similarly inconsistent behaviour across all OS:es to be honest. > Recording or capturing screenshot is tedious without a third party app Cmd+Shift+5, no app, records or screenshots with many convenient ways to select the scope of your screenshot/recording like window, screen, or just a specific area. This is one of the more polished and well thought out features in macOS. > Homebrew is underwhelming as a package manager. It feels like Linux package managers did around 20 year ago. It's an open-source project that's outgrown it's initial purpose, it's also not native and while Linux distributions generally build around the package manager as a central point, Homebrew is hacked together and tacked on as an afterthought, not a fair comparison. > No global shortcut key to trigger arbitrary commands (you need a third party app). Like, starting a terminal. Spotlight has been a part of macOS for I don't even know how long at this point, but I looked it up for you, it's 18 years. > Bad support for external keyboard. Dead keys everywhere that have otherwise consistent meaning (delete, home, end, etc). The kinda stuff that could happen on Linux 10 years ago. Fair, Apple have some special keyboard behaviours that aren't shared with other OS:es, but if you buy a keyboard meant for macOS it's gonna work fine. > No sensible support for external mouse, such as scrolling behaviour is stuck to what would make sense for the trackpad, and feels bad on a mouse. You need to install a third party app to handle this. Yeah, I think this is one of Apples eccentric stubbornness things, I honestly can't fathom why the OS doesn't have a native way of setting scroll direction differently for the touchpad and an external mouse. > No copy/cut paste in file manager. You need to drag and drop like a primate. Copy is there, but there's no cut, I wanna say that's another Steve Jobs legacy that's probably never going to go away. I hate this too. > Oh, and finder, in general, is bad at almost all the things a file manager should be good at. But, someone somewhere at apple decided that labels trumps hierarchical file structures, to navigate a hierarchical file system. I have no idea what you're talking about here. What are you comparing to and what's so much better about it? Honestly I do most of my file managing using the terminal and I suspect you do too, and my parents have no issue navigating Finder, so I don't know why this is such an offensively bad thing to you. > Built in advertisements for apple products pop up from time to time. They do? Where? In 18 years of using macOS I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've felt that Apple were peddling something at me. > Bypassing security check to launch app, as in the "open anyway" is bugged since 2016, but it's still there. And you can click on it without it doing anything. You have to google the command to disable the whole app audit thing and run it in a terminal. (You know, the kind of stuff you had to do on Linux 10 years ago). With you here. I get what they're trying to do, but the UX here is pretty terrible. > Moving windows around is tedious without a third party app. Window management I concede is something Linux distributions generally excel at. > Accessing the root file system through Finder requires googling how and running a command on the terminal (you know, the kind of stuff you had to do on Linux 10 years ago). Most Mac users shouldn't be accessing the root file system, this is a feature, not a bug. > The "it just works" has been Linux for at least the last 5 years. HAH, now I know you're just trolling. Good one! In your defense, I'll agree that many of the things that make macOS and other Apple OS:es nice to work with are under-the-hood things most people wouldn't have any idea exist without being told, I know because I'm technical and have learned one or two a year for 18 years. Needless to say there's now hundreds of such things to learn and most users have no way of accessing that knowledge. That's an actual UX challenge!

kaba0 3y ago

I honestly can’t take you seriously when you write shit like “Linux did 10 years ago”..

okamiueru 3y ago
Let's see: - Alt+Tab is bugged. You need a third party app to bring consistent behaviour. - Closing a window with window decorator very often minimizes it instead, no consistency. - Recording or capturing screenshot is tedious without a third party app - Homebrew is underwhelming as a package manager. It feels like Linux package managers did around 20 year ago. - No global shortcut key to trigger arbitrary commands (you need a third party app). Like, starting a terminal. - Bad support for external keyboard. Dead keys everywhere that have otherwise consistent meaning (delete, home, end, etc). The kinda stuff that could happen on Linux 10 years ago. - No sensible support for external mouse, such as scrolling behaviour is stuck to what would make sense for the trackpad, and feels bad on a mouse. You need to install a third party app to handle this. - No copy/cut paste in file manager. You need to drag and drop like a primate. - Oh, and finder, in general, is bad at almost all the things a file manager should be good at. But, someone somewhere at apple decided that labels trumps hierarchical file structures, to navigate a hierarchical file system. - Built in advertisements for apple products pop up from time to time. - "I guess I won't start working right now because MacOS is installing a mandatory update" has already happened. - Bypassing security check to launch app, as in the "open anyway" is bugged since 2016, but it's still there. And you can click on it without it doing anything. You have to google the command to disable the whole app audit thing and run it in a terminal. (You know, the kind of stuff you had to do on Linux 10 years ago). - Moving windows around is tedious without a third party app. - Accessing the root file system through Finder requires googling how and running a command on the terminal (you know, the kind of stuff you had to do on Linux 10 years ago). This list is just the annoyances noticed this week, and I'm sure I've forgotten quite a few. It feels like crap, and it's not because "apple bad, buu huu". I don't care about your team/my team. I just want things to work and not be annoying. Windows 10 and 11 is crap for many of the same reasons as MacOS. Just a different collection of bad designs. The "it just works" has been Linux for at least the last 5 years.
- rekoil 3y ago
  You're working really hard to make this stuff upp mate. > Alt+Tab is bugged. You need a third party app to bring consistent behaviour. It's Cmd+Tab, and huh? What do you mean bugged? Elaborate please. > Closing a window with window decorator very often minimizes it instead, no consistency. This is app-specific functionality, you'll find similarly inconsistent behaviour across all OS:es to be honest. > Recording or capturing screenshot is tedious without a third party app Cmd+Shift+5, no app, records or screenshots with many convenient ways to select the scope of your screenshot/recording like window, screen, or just a specific area. This is one of the more polished and well thought out features in macOS. > Homebrew is underwhelming as a package manager. It feels like Linux package managers did around 20 year ago. It's an open-source project that's outgrown it's initial purpose, it's also not native and while Linux distributions generally build around the package manager as a central point, Homebrew is hacked together and tacked on as an afterthought, not a fair comparison. > No global shortcut key to trigger arbitrary commands (you need a third party app). Like, starting a terminal. Spotlight has been a part of macOS for I don't even know how long at this point, but I looked it up for you, it's 18 years. > Bad support for external keyboard. Dead keys everywhere that have otherwise consistent meaning (delete, home, end, etc). The kinda stuff that could happen on Linux 10 years ago. Fair, Apple have some special keyboard behaviours that aren't shared with other OS:es, but if you buy a keyboard meant for macOS it's gonna work fine. > No sensible support for external mouse, such as scrolling behaviour is stuck to what would make sense for the trackpad, and feels bad on a mouse. You need to install a third party app to handle this. Yeah, I think this is one of Apples eccentric stubbornness things, I honestly can't fathom why the OS doesn't have a native way of setting scroll direction differently for the touchpad and an external mouse. > No copy/cut paste in file manager. You need to drag and drop like a primate. Copy is there, but there's no cut, I wanna say that's another Steve Jobs legacy that's probably never going to go away. I hate this too. > Oh, and finder, in general, is bad at almost all the things a file manager should be good at. But, someone somewhere at apple decided that labels trumps hierarchical file structures, to navigate a hierarchical file system. I have no idea what you're talking about here. What are you comparing to and what's so much better about it? Honestly I do most of my file managing using the terminal and I suspect you do too, and my parents have no issue navigating Finder, so I don't know why this is such an offensively bad thing to you. > Built in advertisements for apple products pop up from time to time. They do? Where? In 18 years of using macOS I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've felt that Apple were peddling something at me. > Bypassing security check to launch app, as in the "open anyway" is bugged since 2016, but it's still there. And you can click on it without it doing anything. You have to google the command to disable the whole app audit thing and run it in a terminal. (You know, the kind of stuff you had to do on Linux 10 years ago). With you here. I get what they're trying to do, but the UX here is pretty terrible. > Moving windows around is tedious without a third party app. Window management I concede is something Linux distributions generally excel at. > Accessing the root file system through Finder requires googling how and running a command on the terminal (you know, the kind of stuff you had to do on Linux 10 years ago). Most Mac users shouldn't be accessing the root file system, this is a feature, not a bug. > The "it just works" has been Linux for at least the last 5 years. HAH, now I know you're just trolling. Good one! In your defense, I'll agree that many of the things that make macOS and other Apple OS:es nice to work with are under-the-hood things most people wouldn't have any idea exist without being told, I know because I'm technical and have learned one or two a year for 18 years. Needless to say there's now hundreds of such things to learn and most users have no way of accessing that knowledge. That's an actual UX challenge!