7 ms·

> Remember: A trader in the EU is not obligated to accept more than 50 metal coins for the same payment. I shall try and remember that.

raverbashing 3y ago
Interesting. That's max 100EUR in coins And I'm glad coins are more popular in Europe than in the US because those $1 notes take too much space
- jkaplowitz 3y ago
  And it’s also not a mandatory 100EUR coin acceptance limit - it is left to the discretion of the trader.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    In the US, a lot of places won't readily (or at all) take $100 bills. The US is sort of in bill and coinage denomination stasis (denominations are essentially the same as they were over 50 years ago) though it's probably largely academic at this point given that many people basically don't use cash.
    - jkaplowitz 3y ago
      Fully agreed about $100 bills - even $50 bills are often rejected at places with lots of counterfeiting risk and/or mostly small purchases. Many people in the US basically don’t use cash, quite true - but in some parts of the country like NYC, many restaurants and convenience stores are cash-only or only accept cards with a higher price or a minimum purchase amount. So cash is still very commonly carried in NYC and similar cities. The pandemic made it rarer than before for cards not to be accepted at all, but it still happens, as do minimums and price differences. In case you’re wondering about legality: the policies I describe above can be legal or illegal depending on the specifics, but both legal and illegal versions of them are commonly seen in practice.
      - berniedurfee 3y ago
        I believe it’s illegal to put a minimum sale price on credit card transactions in NY. Though I still see it frequently in NYC.
        ghaff 3y ago
        Maybe it's illegal or maybe it's against the store's merchant card agreement. In any case, in practice, retailers/restaurants/etc. can do pretty much whatever they want and probably get away with it so long as it's not too egregious.
        jkaplowitz 3y ago
        Minimums used to be forbidden by many merchant agreements, but due to the federal Dodd-Frank Act from 2010, merchants can set credit card minimums up to no more than $10, as long as they set the same minimum for all types of credit cards they accept. This applies nationwide including NYC. Higher minimums are indeed still illegal, though that doesn’t mean you won’t still see them sometimes. This provision of the Dodd-Frank Act does not cover debit cards, and I believe merchant agreements still prohibit minimums for debit cards. This prohibition is widely violated. I have no idea whether this prohibition is officially applicable to debit cards when they are processed as credit cards (which usually means no PIN for most US cards) - I’ve heard people say it’s not - but it definitely covers debit cards when they are processed as debit cards (which again for most US cards is always the case if a PIN is input). As for NY’s current rules on price differences for credit cards vs cash and debit cards vs cash and the required disclosures, those are a bit complex, so I’ll just link an official explanation here: https://dos.ny.gov/news/consumer-alert-nys-division-consumer-protection-alerts-consumers-ny-law-related-credit-and https://dos.ny.gov/news/consumer-alert-nys-division-consumer... But the TL;DR is, yes different pricing is legal if worded and disclosed correctly. To nobody’s surprise, illegal implementations remain common as well.
        berniedurfee 3y ago
        Thanks for the response. I wonder what the intent is. I can see a merchant not wanting to pay the credit card transaction fee if the purchase is so low as to make the sale a wash or worse. I just wonder if the $10 limit is throwing the dog a bone and small merchants really want/need a higher minimum to protect their margins. Seems like not allowing merchants to decide how they accept payments is an overreach by the government.
- iamthirsty 3y ago
  Ironic, because people in the US don't usually use $1 coins because they take up too much space.
- ghaff 3y ago
  YMMV. I can slip a few bills in with my credit cards. If I can't really just ignore coins like I generally do in the US (not that I use much cash in the US at this point), I need some separate pouch to carry them. I dislike ~$1+ coins because you pretty much have to use them if you're paying and getting change in cash. $1 coins have flopped whenever they've been tried in more or less living memory in the US.
- entropie 3y ago
  Technically we have 10€ coins that you can pay with (but usually nobody does).
- leesalminen 3y ago
  Wow, as someone from the US I always thought the $1 notes were far superior to the equivalent coins in other countries. I dislike having coins in my pocket, but already have a note or 2. Adding a couple more adds negligent space.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    You ruin notes if you put them in your pocket. Coins you can just drop in the coin pocket on jeans. I wish the 1USD coin was more than a legal tender collector item. Maybe up to 2USD would be nice.
    - rascul 3y ago
      I carry my cash in a pocket on my pants. It doesn't get ruined.
      - rightbyte 3y ago
        Maybe it is because I put my hands in my pocket all the time or something if I am the only one with this problem ..
        ldhough 3y ago
        Definitely not the only one, an entire country decided that durability is important for the $1 denomination, I'll copy what I posted above: I was recently in El Salvador, which uses the USD as an official currency (alongside BTC lol). Despite using dollars, the $1 coins are used instead of notes almost exclusively for that denomination (mostly presidential dollars and some silver Susan B Anthony dollars). I was curious and did a bit of research, apparently the reason is that because day-to-day transactions are done almost entirely in small amounts of cash the paper notes have a very short lifespan (apparently <1yr) there, while coins will last decades.
    - toast0 3y ago
      Maybe some notes, but $1 bills are pretty durable. And most places will take them in nearly any condition, although, I did have a merchant in Ocean City, NJ recently that wouldn't take a $1 with a small tear, and I hear merchants overseas do want pristine USD.
awelxtr 3y ago
This is the most disappointing rule ever. It makes my dream of returning money in thousands of 1 cent coins out of spite impossible
- tough 3y ago
  Only if they know the rule tho
  - OJFord 3y ago
    Well they're not obliged to do business with you at all.
  - awelxtr 3y ago
    Iirc only banks can't refuse.
- pluijzer 3y ago
  My uncle used to save 5 cent guilder coins (stuivers in Dutch). I don't know why, maybe he wanted to be a copper Scrooge McDuck it was an obsession of his, always ask people if he could change some money with him. After a while he had many of those plastic drum barrels full of coins in the attic. The problem was that the ceiling under the attic started to visibly bulge, so they decided to bring them to the bank. He said that all the work was worth it to see the expression on the bank tellers face when they rolled those barrels in the bank.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  That kind of thing is sometimes not allowed even here in the US, precisely because it's a form of malicious compliance.

raverbashing 3y ago

Interesting. That's max 100EUR in coins And I'm glad coins are more popular in Europe than in the US because those $1 notes take too much space

jkaplowitz 3y ago
And it’s also not a mandatory 100EUR coin acceptance limit - it is left to the discretion of the trader.
- ghaff 3y ago
  In the US, a lot of places won't readily (or at all) take $100 bills. The US is sort of in bill and coinage denomination stasis (denominations are essentially the same as they were over 50 years ago) though it's probably largely academic at this point given that many people basically don't use cash.
  - jkaplowitz 3y ago
    Fully agreed about $100 bills - even $50 bills are often rejected at places with lots of counterfeiting risk and/or mostly small purchases. Many people in the US basically don’t use cash, quite true - but in some parts of the country like NYC, many restaurants and convenience stores are cash-only or only accept cards with a higher price or a minimum purchase amount. So cash is still very commonly carried in NYC and similar cities. The pandemic made it rarer than before for cards not to be accepted at all, but it still happens, as do minimums and price differences. In case you’re wondering about legality: the policies I describe above can be legal or illegal depending on the specifics, but both legal and illegal versions of them are commonly seen in practice.
    - berniedurfee 3y ago
      I believe it’s illegal to put a minimum sale price on credit card transactions in NY. Though I still see it frequently in NYC.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        Maybe it's illegal or maybe it's against the store's merchant card agreement. In any case, in practice, retailers/restaurants/etc. can do pretty much whatever they want and probably get away with it so long as it's not too egregious.
      - jkaplowitz 3y ago
        Minimums used to be forbidden by many merchant agreements, but due to the federal Dodd-Frank Act from 2010, merchants can set credit card minimums up to no more than $10, as long as they set the same minimum for all types of credit cards they accept. This applies nationwide including NYC. Higher minimums are indeed still illegal, though that doesn’t mean you won’t still see them sometimes. This provision of the Dodd-Frank Act does not cover debit cards, and I believe merchant agreements still prohibit minimums for debit cards. This prohibition is widely violated. I have no idea whether this prohibition is officially applicable to debit cards when they are processed as credit cards (which usually means no PIN for most US cards) - I’ve heard people say it’s not - but it definitely covers debit cards when they are processed as debit cards (which again for most US cards is always the case if a PIN is input). As for NY’s current rules on price differences for credit cards vs cash and debit cards vs cash and the required disclosures, those are a bit complex, so I’ll just link an official explanation here: https://dos.ny.gov/news/consumer-alert-nys-division-consumer-protection-alerts-consumers-ny-law-related-credit-and https://dos.ny.gov/news/consumer-alert-nys-division-consumer... But the TL;DR is, yes different pricing is legal if worded and disclosed correctly. To nobody’s surprise, illegal implementations remain common as well.
        berniedurfee 3y ago
        Thanks for the response. I wonder what the intent is. I can see a merchant not wanting to pay the credit card transaction fee if the purchase is so low as to make the sale a wash or worse. I just wonder if the $10 limit is throwing the dog a bone and small merchants really want/need a higher minimum to protect their margins. Seems like not allowing merchants to decide how they accept payments is an overreach by the government.
iamthirsty 3y ago
Ironic, because people in the US don't usually use $1 coins because they take up too much space.
ghaff 3y ago
YMMV. I can slip a few bills in with my credit cards. If I can't really just ignore coins like I generally do in the US (not that I use much cash in the US at this point), I need some separate pouch to carry them. I dislike ~$1+ coins because you pretty much have to use them if you're paying and getting change in cash. $1 coins have flopped whenever they've been tried in more or less living memory in the US.
entropie 3y ago
Technically we have 10€ coins that you can pay with (but usually nobody does).
leesalminen 3y ago
Wow, as someone from the US I always thought the $1 notes were far superior to the equivalent coins in other countries. I dislike having coins in my pocket, but already have a note or 2. Adding a couple more adds negligent space.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  You ruin notes if you put them in your pocket. Coins you can just drop in the coin pocket on jeans. I wish the 1USD coin was more than a legal tender collector item. Maybe up to 2USD would be nice.
  - rascul 3y ago
    I carry my cash in a pocket on my pants. It doesn't get ruined.
    - rightbyte 3y ago
      Maybe it is because I put my hands in my pocket all the time or something if I am the only one with this problem ..
      - ldhough 3y ago
        Definitely not the only one, an entire country decided that durability is important for the $1 denomination, I'll copy what I posted above: I was recently in El Salvador, which uses the USD as an official currency (alongside BTC lol). Despite using dollars, the $1 coins are used instead of notes almost exclusively for that denomination (mostly presidential dollars and some silver Susan B Anthony dollars). I was curious and did a bit of research, apparently the reason is that because day-to-day transactions are done almost entirely in small amounts of cash the paper notes have a very short lifespan (apparently <1yr) there, while coins will last decades.
  - toast0 3y ago
    Maybe some notes, but $1 bills are pretty durable. And most places will take them in nearly any condition, although, I did have a merchant in Ocean City, NJ recently that wouldn't take a $1 with a small tear, and I hear merchants overseas do want pristine USD.

awelxtr 3y ago

This is the most disappointing rule ever. It makes my dream of returning money in thousands of 1 cent coins out of spite impossible

tough 3y ago
Only if they know the rule tho
- OJFord 3y ago
  Well they're not obliged to do business with you at all.
- awelxtr 3y ago
  Iirc only banks can't refuse.
pluijzer 3y ago
My uncle used to save 5 cent guilder coins (stuivers in Dutch). I don't know why, maybe he wanted to be a copper Scrooge McDuck it was an obsession of his, always ask people if he could change some money with him. After a while he had many of those plastic drum barrels full of coins in the attic. The problem was that the ceiling under the attic started to visibly bulge, so they decided to bring them to the bank. He said that all the work was worth it to see the expression on the bank tellers face when they rolled those barrels in the bank.
mrguyorama 3y ago
That kind of thing is sometimes not allowed even here in the US, precisely because it's a form of malicious compliance.