5 ms·

Tangential, but about REI and their "real enthusiast" nature.... I've been an REI member for.....many many years. I stop by every time I visit the whites in N

Tangential, but about REI and their "real enthusiast" nature.... I've been an REI member for.....many many years. I stop by every time I visit the whites in NH, so probs 6-10 times a year. I have not purchased a single item in years. costs are out of control. "glamour hiking/camping" customers are making REI more off of camping meals and north face t shirts than they ever have off survivalist classes or good quality hiking gear from france. REI branded "hiking pants" are 100 USD. Made in china, lowest quality possible. My 7 dollar puma running pants are exactly the same and saw me hike through ireland just fine.

seanp2k2 3y ago
>REI branded "hiking pants" are 100 USD. Made in china, lowest quality possible. My 7 dollar puma running pants are exactly the same and saw me hike through ireland just fine. False. A lot of REI brand stuff is made by the same factories that make stuff for other high-end outdoor brands. They still tend to use higher-quality fabrics and construction. They tend to use things like YKK zippers that stand up to years of use. They’ll typically have bar tacks and double stitching in high-stress areas so they won’t fail when you actually use them. They also tend to get really positive reviews on most of their REI-brand items, and their warranty is great. Lastly, there are usually great sales on their REI-branded stuff, so it’s not hard to get 30-50% off the already-lower-than-other-brands price. Yes, they do make some hiking pants that are $100 right now, but they also have others that are $50 and $60. Do you need high-end hiking-specific pants to hike? No, but I find that they can be much more comfortable and sweat-wicking + fast-drying, in addition to lightweight yet durable with plenty of useful pockets and construction that lasts years. I find that many folks who make comments like this are the same folks complaining that nothing is made in the US anymore and nothing lasts anymore. Both are untrue, it’s just that the bottom end of the market has proven much more popular with consumers, and many more companies have made ever cheaper and lower-quality products available to satisfy this demand. A positive take would be that it’s great how we have so much variety available in quality and price points for any given product today. A more negative view is that we’ve made the good stuff even more expensive as now it’s they’re niche luxury items instead of just having the common versions be decent quality because people keep buying the cheapest possible junk regardless of quality because they’re not intelligent enough to understand or appreciate the difference nor the global economics which affect manufacture and distribution of these goods.
- Reubachi 3y ago
  I'll ignore the assumptions you made about me as a person and take it as us just not knowing each other. I'm not exaggerating, and my point is that I don't need high end gear. I want the equivilent of Quechua, an excellent, affordable, mid quality outdoor gear supplier in EU (you can find in surplus stores here occasionally). I have an 18 dollar raincoat from them that I have summited Washington with several times over 8 years now years, that I picked up in ireland after literally forgetting my raincoat. I cannot walk out of REI with a raincoat that is "lightweight and breathable" (meaning, a cheap shell) for less than 110 dollars. Would you like me to take a photo of the YKK zipper on my Quechua raincoat that again cost 18 dollars? In fact, I can probably guarantee you, to your point, that REI sources from the same manufacturers as Quechua, at 10x the cost. I have merino wool socks made for lineme/winter laborers that cost, no joke, 7 dollars for 4 pairs. They absolutely blow REIs out of the water, not even considering cost.They are a no name brand and I got them from the TJ max at the base of a mountain in new hampshire. Trust me, I want to think like you do, but REI is now an "experiences" company, not a company interested in furthering the middle class's ventures into the great outdoors. I say this as someone who chose to work there in my off time as a "hobby" job before the real sh*t hit the fan when they stopped sending actual checks for the co-op payments.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  Thank you for this prime example of shilling behavior.
senkora 3y ago
Responding specifically to the point on glamour hiking/camping: REI definitely puts a huge focus on growing the outdoors activities market by being attractive to newcomers. And a large part of that is offering fashionable clothes and convenience options, and marketing hiking as a social-media-friendly lifestyle. On balance, I think this is a good thing for the future of outdoors sports. The downside is an increase in unprepared hikers (dangerous) and overuse of easily accessible trails (unpleasant). But there’s a lot of pluses: 1. I can more easily convince my friends and coworkers from the city to go hiking with me. 2. I’m confident that the parks and trails that are popular and widely used will continue to exist for future generations. 3. This is a subtle point, but I think it’s very important: if you are someone whose parents never took you hiking/camping, and you don’t know how at all, then the combination of a) hiking being fashionable/cool and b) easy to learn about and buy gear for is critical to convince you to try it. Historically, camping in the US has mostly been a white activity. I am white, and to be clear there’s nothing wrong with that, but I like that many of my non-white friends whose parents never took them camping as kids are now interested in hiking and camping. (I personally think the camping meals and $100 pants are silly, but that’s consumer capitalism for ya. It is what it is)
- senkora 3y ago
  I’ll also point out amateur radio as a counterpoint, since that’s another activity that I have tried where the story looks very different: 1. There’s no way I could ever convince my friends to try it. 2. There is a very real chance that it will disappear in a generation under pressure by corporate interests who would like to utilize the spectrum. 3. There’s barely any young people joining the community for a variety of reasons. Amateur radio is a dying activity. I’m grateful that the future of hiking and camping is much brighter, because I can imagine a world where it was also in decline.
solardev 3y ago
There's no reason to buy things at full price there, especially clothes. Between the Outlet, regular sales, and garage sales, there's often deeply discounted gear and out of season clothing available. If you want really affordable stuff, Walmart and Big 5 offer a lot of cheap outdoor gear that will do the job. REI caters to a different segment, mostly the mid high end. In between, Dick's etc. offer midrange stuff. Some of the manufacturers (like Patagonia) offer used clothes directly too. But like you said, hiking clothes are often overpriced and any generic synthetic would likely do fine. Personally I get my gear at REI because I want it to last (and they have a great return policy if it doesn't) but my clothes at Costco or used, and my consumables (backpacking food etc.) direct from manufacturers in small boxes.
rufus_foreman 3y ago
Puma running pants are $50-$110: https://us.puma.com/us/en/men/clothing/pants?pref_sport=Running https://us.puma.com/us/en/men/clothing/pants?pref_sport=Runn...
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Many clothing brands sell various quality of clothing at various price points using the same brand name. For example, I am currently wearing $25 Puma shoes from Costco, but I doubt they sell those on their official website, which is probably just their highest priced stuff. “Outlet” malls in the US are also dumping grounds for lower priced and probably lower quality goods. They usually put a bigger, uglier logo and have wider fit so it does not compete with their higher priced products.

seanp2k2 3y ago

>REI branded "hiking pants" are 100 USD. Made in china, lowest quality possible. My 7 dollar puma running pants are exactly the same and saw me hike through ireland just fine. False. A lot of REI brand stuff is made by the same factories that make stuff for other high-end outdoor brands. They still tend to use higher-quality fabrics and construction. They tend to use things like YKK zippers that stand up to years of use. They’ll typically have bar tacks and double stitching in high-stress areas so they won’t fail when you actually use them. They also tend to get really positive reviews on most of their REI-brand items, and their warranty is great. Lastly, there are usually great sales on their REI-branded stuff, so it’s not hard to get 30-50% off the already-lower-than-other-brands price. Yes, they do make some hiking pants that are $100 right now, but they also have others that are $50 and $60. Do you need high-end hiking-specific pants to hike? No, but I find that they can be much more comfortable and sweat-wicking + fast-drying, in addition to lightweight yet durable with plenty of useful pockets and construction that lasts years. I find that many folks who make comments like this are the same folks complaining that nothing is made in the US anymore and nothing lasts anymore. Both are untrue, it’s just that the bottom end of the market has proven much more popular with consumers, and many more companies have made ever cheaper and lower-quality products available to satisfy this demand. A positive take would be that it’s great how we have so much variety available in quality and price points for any given product today. A more negative view is that we’ve made the good stuff even more expensive as now it’s they’re niche luxury items instead of just having the common versions be decent quality because people keep buying the cheapest possible junk regardless of quality because they’re not intelligent enough to understand or appreciate the difference nor the global economics which affect manufacture and distribution of these goods.

Reubachi 3y ago
I'll ignore the assumptions you made about me as a person and take it as us just not knowing each other. I'm not exaggerating, and my point is that I don't need high end gear. I want the equivilent of Quechua, an excellent, affordable, mid quality outdoor gear supplier in EU (you can find in surplus stores here occasionally). I have an 18 dollar raincoat from them that I have summited Washington with several times over 8 years now years, that I picked up in ireland after literally forgetting my raincoat. I cannot walk out of REI with a raincoat that is "lightweight and breathable" (meaning, a cheap shell) for less than 110 dollars. Would you like me to take a photo of the YKK zipper on my Quechua raincoat that again cost 18 dollars? In fact, I can probably guarantee you, to your point, that REI sources from the same manufacturers as Quechua, at 10x the cost. I have merino wool socks made for lineme/winter laborers that cost, no joke, 7 dollars for 4 pairs. They absolutely blow REIs out of the water, not even considering cost.They are a no name brand and I got them from the TJ max at the base of a mountain in new hampshire. Trust me, I want to think like you do, but REI is now an "experiences" company, not a company interested in furthering the middle class's ventures into the great outdoors. I say this as someone who chose to work there in my off time as a "hobby" job before the real sh*t hit the fan when they stopped sending actual checks for the co-op payments.
tourmalinetaco 3y ago
Thank you for this prime example of shilling behavior.

senkora 3y ago

Responding specifically to the point on glamour hiking/camping: REI definitely puts a huge focus on growing the outdoors activities market by being attractive to newcomers. And a large part of that is offering fashionable clothes and convenience options, and marketing hiking as a social-media-friendly lifestyle. On balance, I think this is a good thing for the future of outdoors sports. The downside is an increase in unprepared hikers (dangerous) and overuse of easily accessible trails (unpleasant). But there’s a lot of pluses: 1. I can more easily convince my friends and coworkers from the city to go hiking with me. 2. I’m confident that the parks and trails that are popular and widely used will continue to exist for future generations. 3. This is a subtle point, but I think it’s very important: if you are someone whose parents never took you hiking/camping, and you don’t know how at all, then the combination of a) hiking being fashionable/cool and b) easy to learn about and buy gear for is critical to convince you to try it. Historically, camping in the US has mostly been a white activity. I am white, and to be clear there’s nothing wrong with that, but I like that many of my non-white friends whose parents never took them camping as kids are now interested in hiking and camping. (I personally think the camping meals and $100 pants are silly, but that’s consumer capitalism for ya. It is what it is)

senkora 3y ago
I’ll also point out amateur radio as a counterpoint, since that’s another activity that I have tried where the story looks very different: 1. There’s no way I could ever convince my friends to try it. 2. There is a very real chance that it will disappear in a generation under pressure by corporate interests who would like to utilize the spectrum. 3. There’s barely any young people joining the community for a variety of reasons. Amateur radio is a dying activity. I’m grateful that the future of hiking and camping is much brighter, because I can imagine a world where it was also in decline.

solardev 3y ago

There's no reason to buy things at full price there, especially clothes. Between the Outlet, regular sales, and garage sales, there's often deeply discounted gear and out of season clothing available. If you want really affordable stuff, Walmart and Big 5 offer a lot of cheap outdoor gear that will do the job. REI caters to a different segment, mostly the mid high end. In between, Dick's etc. offer midrange stuff. Some of the manufacturers (like Patagonia) offer used clothes directly too. But like you said, hiking clothes are often overpriced and any generic synthetic would likely do fine. Personally I get my gear at REI because I want it to last (and they have a great return policy if it doesn't) but my clothes at Costco or used, and my consumables (backpacking food etc.) direct from manufacturers in small boxes.

rufus_foreman 3y ago

Puma running pants are $50-$110: https://us.puma.com/us/en/men/clothing/pants?pref_sport=Running https://us.puma.com/us/en/men/clothing/pants?pref_sport=Runn...

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Many clothing brands sell various quality of clothing at various price points using the same brand name. For example, I am currently wearing $25 Puma shoes from Costco, but I doubt they sell those on their official website, which is probably just their highest priced stuff. “Outlet” malls in the US are also dumping grounds for lower priced and probably lower quality goods. They usually put a bigger, uglier logo and have wider fit so it does not compete with their higher priced products.