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>This is exactly why I'm taking a wait & see approach. If it gains enough momentum to develop the kind of tool & library ecosystem Java & C# enjoy I'll learn it

>This is exactly why I'm taking a wait & see approach. If it gains enough momentum to develop the kind of tool & library ecosystem Java & C# enjoy I'll learn it but I've wasted enough time chasing dark horse language contenders already. I don't even have to do that. In my world, I'm free to oscillate between C and Python, depending on the problem being solved. Bonus: One can call the other. I have no need for mid-tier corporate languages like Java and C# anymore. Go can be a "better" mid-tier language all it wants, I still won't learn it because it doesn't do anything better than Python or C currently do. I actively avoid using or creating codebases so grossly-huge that you need the "bug-avoidance" and performance of something like Java and C# to the point where Python is no longer practicable. When you need more "performance" because your codebase is too fat, you've got a bigger problem that can't be solved with a faster runtime. But what do I know? I'm just a startup kid who ran screaming from the .NET ecosystem.

cageface 15y ago
It's hard to love Java as a language but I'll still sometimes reach for it over Ruby or Python or C because it's not that much more verbose and it can get within 4x or so of C++ code without even trying. And often the large codebase finds you, no matter how hard you try to avoid it, and there you start to appreciate some of the design decisions of Java.
- heretohelp 15y ago
  I don't deny it has its place for some people, but it's definitely not my experience that >Ruby or Python or C because it's not that much more verbose I've seen some shocking differences in LOC and comprehensibility between Ruby/Python vs. Java code, even when a concerted effort has been made to avoid the typical sins of Java codebases. You might just be more patient than I am, or a better Java programmer. I don't know. All I know is that I end up experiencing kidney failure every time I have to interact with Java code.
  - dlitz 15y ago
    > You might just be more patient than I am, or a better Java programmer. I don't know. All I know is that I end up experiencing kidney failure every time I have to interact with Java code. I don't experience kidney failure, just a sudden urge to scrape my skull against a rough, brick wall. Life is too short for me to spend it dealing with that crap and the community that insists that "Java's not slow", even though it needs gigs and gigs of memory to run (which takes forever to populate and blows your cache), has no shared libraries, no copy-on-write, no memory protection, and no dozens of other things that Unix has had for decades for a reason.

cageface 15y ago

It's hard to love Java as a language but I'll still sometimes reach for it over Ruby or Python or C because it's not that much more verbose and it can get within 4x or so of C++ code without even trying. And often the large codebase finds you, no matter how hard you try to avoid it, and there you start to appreciate some of the design decisions of Java.

heretohelp 15y ago
I don't deny it has its place for some people, but it's definitely not my experience that >Ruby or Python or C because it's not that much more verbose I've seen some shocking differences in LOC and comprehensibility between Ruby/Python vs. Java code, even when a concerted effort has been made to avoid the typical sins of Java codebases. You might just be more patient than I am, or a better Java programmer. I don't know. All I know is that I end up experiencing kidney failure every time I have to interact with Java code.
- dlitz 15y ago
  > You might just be more patient than I am, or a better Java programmer. I don't know. All I know is that I end up experiencing kidney failure every time I have to interact with Java code. I don't experience kidney failure, just a sudden urge to scrape my skull against a rough, brick wall. Life is too short for me to spend it dealing with that crap and the community that insists that "Java's not slow", even though it needs gigs and gigs of memory to run (which takes forever to populate and blows your cache), has no shared libraries, no copy-on-write, no memory protection, and no dozens of other things that Unix has had for decades for a reason.