3 ms·

Check out the actual paper: https://n.neurology.org/content/neurology/early/2023/08/21/WNL.0000000000207727.full.pdf https://n.neurology.org/content/neurology/e

Check out the actual paper: https://n.neurology.org/content/neurology/early/2023/08/21/WNL.0000000000207727.full.pdf https://n.neurology.org/content/neurology/early/2023/08/21/W... There is significant overlap in the distributions of prodromal and control Parkinson’s patients even for the measure with the strongest signal. While some values for that measure seem to be almost conclusive markets of Parkinson’s, there are ranges in which the overlap is enough to make it not useful as a sole measure without having a high false positive rate. Seems promising at catching a decent proportion of Parkinson’s super early, but I don’t think by itself this could yield both a good false positive and false negative rate. Keep in mind this is an ebullient press release summarizing a more conservative publication

hammock 3y ago
>Seems promising at catching a decent proportion of Parkinson’s super early What does early intervention look like for Parkinson’s (besides lifestyle changes)? As far as I know the treatment for Parkinson’s is basically lifelong dopamine pills, which of course you build a tolerance to and which lose effectiveness over time, requiring ever higher doses. Meaning once you start on them, the ticking countdown of your brain’s lifespan starts as well.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  Deep brain stimulation is becoming quite popular as well...
  - neuronerdgirl 3y ago
    DBS is very much a late-stage treatment - it can stop your uncontrollable shaking once you're at that point, but it does nothing as far as reversal is concerned
    - JimtheCoder 3y ago
      While I agree that is the common sentiment, I have read numerous studies that are starting to question this... "There is evidence to support the use of DBS in less advanced PD and that it may be appropriate for earlier stages of the disease than for which it is currently used. The improving short and long-term safety profile of DBS makes early application a realistic possibility. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4065356/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4065356/
- aradox66 3y ago
  Dopamine is to help control symptoms, not to slow development of the disease. There is no use for dopamine treatment in an early diagnosis that precedes meaningful symptoms. Lifestyle changes, on the other hand, mostly meaning exercise, significantly and reliably slow the onset and development of symptoms.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - hammock 3y ago
    What does early intervention look like for Parkinson’s besides lifestyle changes?
    - mchusma 3y ago
      My mom has Parkinson's and was in the medical industry for many years (so is a reasonably savvy person). So I trust her opinion, and have been helping her manage the disease. There is effectively nothing at this point that appears to stop the progression of the disease besides lifestyle changes. My mother at 70 goes to the gym for about 2 hours a day on average. This is the most obviously helpful. She has tried fecal transplant (limited evidence this helps in studies, dindn't help her biomarkers), tested going gluten free/dairy free (also some limited evidence it works, didn't help her biomarkers). There are multiple things for brain stimulation, including vibrating tactile glove/boards, but these help symptoms. We have talked to many different Parkinson's experts around the world, and I think at this point the only thing she seems to think really makes a difference is lots of exercise. She completed halting any evidence of the progression of the disease for about 5 years with exercise, but it will not last forever. So completely serious, if you get flagged for Parkinsons, and start getting in amazing shape, you have a good chance of really helping yourself get more good years. Fingers crossed for ongoing research to finally find some way to stop or reverse the damage in another way! (not medical advice)
      - sleepytimetea 3y ago
        Not to discount the correlation that matches her progression history, but Parkinson's can progress in fits and starts...a stable plateau can suddenly turn into a cliff with accompanying severe decline in health.
photochemsyn 3y ago
> "In our report, thinner INL and GCIPL were also associated with a higher risk of developing Parkinson disease. However, it should be noted that the effect sizes, especially for the INL, are small, so the practical value for an individual as a marker of early Parkinson disease is currently limited." Looking around a bit it seems that individual GCIPL thickness varies quite a bit even in healthy young adults, with the range exceeding the effect detected in the study. Practically this might mean you'd have to have lifelong GCIPL monitoring to detect the early onset of disease (and GCIPL thinning doesn't seem sufficient to diagnose Parkinson's, it occurs in other diseases like Alzheimer's and perhaps even as a natural outcome of aging).

hammock 3y ago

>Seems promising at catching a decent proportion of Parkinson’s super early What does early intervention look like for Parkinson’s (besides lifestyle changes)? As far as I know the treatment for Parkinson’s is basically lifelong dopamine pills, which of course you build a tolerance to and which lose effectiveness over time, requiring ever higher doses. Meaning once you start on them, the ticking countdown of your brain’s lifespan starts as well.

JimtheCoder 3y ago
Deep brain stimulation is becoming quite popular as well...
- neuronerdgirl 3y ago
  DBS is very much a late-stage treatment - it can stop your uncontrollable shaking once you're at that point, but it does nothing as far as reversal is concerned
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    While I agree that is the common sentiment, I have read numerous studies that are starting to question this... "There is evidence to support the use of DBS in less advanced PD and that it may be appropriate for earlier stages of the disease than for which it is currently used. The improving short and long-term safety profile of DBS makes early application a realistic possibility. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4065356/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4065356/
aradox66 3y ago
Dopamine is to help control symptoms, not to slow development of the disease. There is no use for dopamine treatment in an early diagnosis that precedes meaningful symptoms. Lifestyle changes, on the other hand, mostly meaning exercise, significantly and reliably slow the onset and development of symptoms.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hammock 3y ago
  What does early intervention look like for Parkinson’s besides lifestyle changes?
  - mchusma 3y ago
    My mom has Parkinson's and was in the medical industry for many years (so is a reasonably savvy person). So I trust her opinion, and have been helping her manage the disease. There is effectively nothing at this point that appears to stop the progression of the disease besides lifestyle changes. My mother at 70 goes to the gym for about 2 hours a day on average. This is the most obviously helpful. She has tried fecal transplant (limited evidence this helps in studies, dindn't help her biomarkers), tested going gluten free/dairy free (also some limited evidence it works, didn't help her biomarkers). There are multiple things for brain stimulation, including vibrating tactile glove/boards, but these help symptoms. We have talked to many different Parkinson's experts around the world, and I think at this point the only thing she seems to think really makes a difference is lots of exercise. She completed halting any evidence of the progression of the disease for about 5 years with exercise, but it will not last forever. So completely serious, if you get flagged for Parkinsons, and start getting in amazing shape, you have a good chance of really helping yourself get more good years. Fingers crossed for ongoing research to finally find some way to stop or reverse the damage in another way! (not medical advice)
    - sleepytimetea 3y ago
      Not to discount the correlation that matches her progression history, but Parkinson's can progress in fits and starts...a stable plateau can suddenly turn into a cliff with accompanying severe decline in health.

photochemsyn 3y ago

> "In our report, thinner INL and GCIPL were also associated with a higher risk of developing Parkinson disease. However, it should be noted that the effect sizes, especially for the INL, are small, so the practical value for an individual as a marker of early Parkinson disease is currently limited." Looking around a bit it seems that individual GCIPL thickness varies quite a bit even in healthy young adults, with the range exceeding the effect detected in the study. Practically this might mean you'd have to have lifelong GCIPL monitoring to detect the early onset of disease (and GCIPL thinning doesn't seem sufficient to diagnose Parkinson's, it occurs in other diseases like Alzheimer's and perhaps even as a natural outcome of aging).