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The "Are we really engineers?" series really changed my mind on this: https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/ https://www.hillelwayne.com/post

The "Are we really engineers?" series really changed my mind on this: https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/ https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/ I put "programmer" on my tax return for years, but I say "software engineer" now. (I wish all I did at work was programming!!) It is all the same stuff. Someone has an idea, then you figure out how to make that a reality, along the way figuring out who does what, figuring out how long it's going to take, adjusting your plans when new information shows up, reacting to setbacks, etc. Whether you're moving concrete or bytes in RAM, the essence of what makes engineering engineering is the same. (Look at that building in San Francisco that is now tipping over. That's software engineering level of civil engineering! But it's all the same shit at the end of the day. A software engineer is surprised when Postgres doesn't hold up to their super cool new query that a million people want to run at once. A civil engineer is surprised when the geotechnical reports were wrong, they built their foundation the wrong way, and then their building starts tipping over. The common thread is that shit breaks and then we fix it.) I think people are salty because the stakes in software engineering are relatively low, but the potential to make money is nearly unbounded. Nobody is going to die if your ad targeting software has a bug, but you can make yourself billions of dollars if you get it right. Civil engineers are not so lucky. If your bridge collapses because you messed up the math, that's something you have to live with. And people will only pay so much money for bridges. So that's definitely "unfair", but them's the breaks. At least you can point at what you made and say "I made that". When it doesn't collapse, people are going to be a lot more impressed than the software engineer with really good ad targeting.

MrJohz 3y ago
I second the Hillel Wayne article, and the whole series he wrote on the subject. It's a really good exploration of what engineering looks like in different disciples, what software engineering can learn from other engineering disciplines, and what other discipline can learn from us. I think people hear engineering and jump immediately to a handful of big professions like aerospace, or civil engineering, and build their view of engineering entirely based on that: very controlled, very life-or-death, everything needs to be done correctly, etc. But that's kind of like assuming that what Google is doing is representative of all software engineering. And while it's true that software engineering is probably one of the less mature branches of engineering, there are things that we do a lot better than other disciplines, like change management (i.e. git), or automated testing.
Mindless2112 3y ago
I used to put "Computer Programmer" [1] on my tax return. Based on BLS definitions, I now put "Software Developer" [2]. [1] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151251.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151251.htm [2] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm
chongli 3y ago
And people will only pay so much money for bridges. So that's definitely "unfair", but them's the breaks. The secret to making a lot of money on a bridge is not to sell it. Follow the software world’s example and make it a toll bridge. Collect a hefty rent on all the traffic coming in and out of a major city. Make a fortune!

MrJohz 3y ago

I second the Hillel Wayne article, and the whole series he wrote on the subject. It's a really good exploration of what engineering looks like in different disciples, what software engineering can learn from other engineering disciplines, and what other discipline can learn from us. I think people hear engineering and jump immediately to a handful of big professions like aerospace, or civil engineering, and build their view of engineering entirely based on that: very controlled, very life-or-death, everything needs to be done correctly, etc. But that's kind of like assuming that what Google is doing is representative of all software engineering. And while it's true that software engineering is probably one of the less mature branches of engineering, there are things that we do a lot better than other disciplines, like change management (i.e. git), or automated testing.

Mindless2112 3y ago

I used to put "Computer Programmer" [1] on my tax return. Based on BLS definitions, I now put "Software Developer" [2]. [1] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151251.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151251.htm [2] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm

chongli 3y ago

And people will only pay so much money for bridges. So that's definitely "unfair", but them's the breaks. The secret to making a lot of money on a bridge is not to sell it. Follow the software world’s example and make it a toll bridge. Collect a hefty rent on all the traffic coming in and out of a major city. Make a fortune!