3 ms·

Fabbing our own chips is a no-brainer for maximum certainty around function, security, supply, etc. Agree with working together but many leaders don't see it t

by miek 3y ago

Fabbing our own chips is a no-brainer for maximum certainty around function, security, supply, etc. Agree with working together but many leaders don't see it that way, so it's best to remain realistic and be prepared for bad scenarios.

ChatGTP 3y ago
I actually like your sentiment, but I think what you're describing is ideology, not economics. The reality is, America sent many things overseas to be manufactured because it was cheaper, and I don't really see this changing in the near future, at least at scale. If India starts producing chips that work just as well as American chips and if they're cheaper than what's available in the USA, you will be using Indian chips and American manufacturing firms will either have to work for cheaper (unlikely) or offshore as well. Where I live, we sent fruit grown locally, halfway across the country to a market, and then we buy them back at a higher price, this is clearly the stupidest thing ever on so many levels, but economics is a bitch.
- RetroTechie 3y ago
  > If India starts producing chips that work just as well (..) That's a long way off, still. Just the other day, I spotted an India-made Arduino style board on RISC-V Exchange. Followed the link, saw there were several flavors & revisions, and with a "buy" link below. So.. how much? "Please login". So, some university-developed academia/student only thingie. That's just pathetic. Meanwhile, I bought a made-in-China, 4-core board with decent GPU, 8GB RAM, lots of modern peripherals for ~€100, mass produced, 2 day shipping (Germany warehouse -> NL). There's smaller boards + chips popping up left & right (like Milk-V Duo, BL808, a ~$0.10 uC, etc) from Chinese vendors. Not to mention high-end offerings. Sure, India will get there. They'll have their fabs (if they haven't already some halfway large/modern fabs). But the path from "we're gonna make our own CPUs" to having a mature, diverse, mass producing semiconductor industry with a matching local talent pool & investment capital, is a long one. Silicon Valley & Hong Kong / Shenzhen took decades to become the powerhouses they are. India is taking their first steps on this path but they have a long way to go (but letting uni students tinker with RISC-V designs, is a good start :-).
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    I’m not talking entirely about the practicality of it. I’m talking about the impracticality of the type of forced market regulation that you’re suggesting which goes against everything that is (corporate, capitalist) America. If China starts making good RISC-V chips at half the price of the USA. I bet you will be seeing a lot of Chinese chips in the USA… If China makes more better chips cheaper it will not be financially viable to do what you’re talking about.

by miek 3y ago

ChatGTP 3y ago

I actually like your sentiment, but I think what you're describing is ideology, not economics. The reality is, America sent many things overseas to be manufactured because it was cheaper, and I don't really see this changing in the near future, at least at scale. If India starts producing chips that work just as well as American chips and if they're cheaper than what's available in the USA, you will be using Indian chips and American manufacturing firms will either have to work for cheaper (unlikely) or offshore as well. Where I live, we sent fruit grown locally, halfway across the country to a market, and then we buy them back at a higher price, this is clearly the stupidest thing ever on so many levels, but economics is a bitch.

RetroTechie 3y ago
> If India starts producing chips that work just as well (..) That's a long way off, still. Just the other day, I spotted an India-made Arduino style board on RISC-V Exchange. Followed the link, saw there were several flavors & revisions, and with a "buy" link below. So.. how much? "Please login". So, some university-developed academia/student only thingie. That's just pathetic. Meanwhile, I bought a made-in-China, 4-core board with decent GPU, 8GB RAM, lots of modern peripherals for ~€100, mass produced, 2 day shipping (Germany warehouse -> NL). There's smaller boards + chips popping up left & right (like Milk-V Duo, BL808, a ~$0.10 uC, etc) from Chinese vendors. Not to mention high-end offerings. Sure, India will get there. They'll have their fabs (if they haven't already some halfway large/modern fabs). But the path from "we're gonna make our own CPUs" to having a mature, diverse, mass producing semiconductor industry with a matching local talent pool & investment capital, is a long one. Silicon Valley & Hong Kong / Shenzhen took decades to become the powerhouses they are. India is taking their first steps on this path but they have a long way to go (but letting uni students tinker with RISC-V designs, is a good start :-).
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  I’m not talking entirely about the practicality of it. I’m talking about the impracticality of the type of forced market regulation that you’re suggesting which goes against everything that is (corporate, capitalist) America. If China starts making good RISC-V chips at half the price of the USA. I bet you will be seeing a lot of Chinese chips in the USA… If China makes more better chips cheaper it will not be financially viable to do what you’re talking about.