5 ms·

I've always wanted a site that--instead of telling which product was the best--told me how to look for quality in the category I'm interested in. What does good

by iamwil 3y ago

I've always wanted a site that--instead of telling which product was the best--told me how to look for quality in the category I'm interested in. What does good look like? What makes a good quality water hose? What are the unsung features and considerations for drying hooks? What does quality look like in jeans? Am I paying for the brand or an actual meticulous craft? wirecutter might have been that at one point, but I find it doesn't fill that gap for me. As I've gotten older, I'd rather have a few quality things, rather than a whole bunch of good enough things that I'd throw away next year.

danudey 3y ago
> I've always wanted a site that--instead of telling which product was the best--told me how to look for quality in the category I'm interested in. What does good look like? What makes a good quality water hose? What are the unsung features and considerations for drying hooks? What does quality look like in jeans? Am I paying for the brand or an actual meticulous craft? This would have been very useful for me, even back when Wirecutter was the best option available. Living in Canada means that I have reduced access to specific models of items; Wirecutter might recommend something great that I can buy on Amazon, or it might recommend something great that literally no retailer in Canada sells, or which costs twice as much in Canada as it does in the US for some reason. Sometimes I was able to grab the runner-up, or they would mention in the review that their pick, the DDW1345-B was 'nearly identical to the DDW1344-A, but with three extra HDMI ports but the same tungsten-carbide drill bits', so I could pick up the DDW1344-A knowing that if I didn't need those ports it was essentially the same as a recommendation. It was endlessly frustrating, though, when they would recommend exactly what I was looking for (a combination air purifier/humidifier/oscillating fan!) for a reasonable price ($200!) which I either couldn't get or couldn't justify the Canadian price of ($450 plus $88 shipping, arrives in three months). I ended up finding other sites which offered perhaps less rigorous testing but would recommend things I could actually get (shoutout to RTings for even more in-depth testing of home theatre equipment and also being located in Canada). > I'd rather have a few quality things, rather than a whole bunch of good enough things that I'd throw away next year. This reminds me of a girl I once dated. She kept criticizing me for spending $8.99 on a water pitcher when I could get one at the dollar store "for like a buck" and "just replace it every year". It blew my mind. Why do I want to go shopping for a new water pitcher every year when I can just buy one and use it for way longer than our relationship is going to last?
pallas_athena 3y ago
You may want Rtings? They have detail methodology for each product category. For example, TV [1] If you open a random TV ([2]) and hover on the "(?)" buttons on the right, you can see the breakdown of each test, and if you click on each test it will give you the methods used. For example, input lag: [1] https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/changelogs/1-11 https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/changelogs/1-11 [2] https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/s90c-oled https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/s90c-oled [3] https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
maypop 3y ago
The current chat models will attempt to help you do that. Might be sufficient?
- mcphage 3y ago
  Of course they will, they’ll answer whatever you ask. How do you know if what they’re saying is true?
- coldtea 3y ago
  You mean combine sort of related information from all over the internet into new statistically generated phrases that appear to answer the question, but still contain all kinds of hallucinations, fabrications, and wrong statements? Then yes, they do.
skybrian 3y ago
There are some products like that, but the purpose of many of these review articles is to tell you things you can't see for yourself unless you have a bunch of lab equipment and lots of time. Or in the case of Consumer Reports reliability ratings, a bunch of people you can survey.
- noitpmeder 3y ago
  I'd say that consumer reports is my.most trustworthy option for the categories it covers.
SloopJon 3y ago
Yes, although Wirecutter is frequently one of the inputs into my buying decision, I find the one-size-fits-all approach annoying at times--this is the best power strip, because we believe everyone needs at least eight outlets, and twelve is better, but more than twelve is too many. Well maybe I think anything with more than six outlets is too big, or maybe a right-angle plug is my most important criterion. I can sometimes pick through "The competition" and find something that is slightly less awesome or slightly pricier, but that section reads like you'd be dumb to buy this model instead of our top pick, which also comes in purple.
jyunwai 3y ago
Your approach to ask specific questions is a good one. I've found that the key to avoiding persuasion by reviewers with undisclosed conflicts of interest—which includes Reddit comments made by people who bought accounts with a posting history to promote a product, and even YouTube video creators who do not disclose their sponsorships—is to pay close attention to the specific details of reviews. Paid reviews often have lots of emotional arguments (such as "I've been missing out," "I can't imagine life without it," or "I LOVE the one I have") without substance. Even if some of these comments are from people who are genuinely happy, the comments are still uninformative and don't help you understand the strengths and weaknesses of a product, versus alternatives. More detailed reviews—especially those that include fairly-written comparisons with compelling alternatives—give you the information to think critically and make your own judgement on whether a product or service is worth purchasing. For product research, I've also found it useful to seek out negative reports or complaints about products breaking over time. That can help you factor in the long-term costs of owning something new: you can learn that you may need to purchase replacement parts for a product over time (adding a recurring maintenance cost), or that certain products cannot be repaired, and will likely require a complete replacement after a few years.
senkora 3y ago
It’s obviously only for the product categories that they sell, but REI’s expert advice posts are close to this. For example, here is their post on downhill skis: https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/downhill-skis.html https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/downhill-skis.html They explain all of the parameters that matter when making a decision on what to buy. It’s left to you to evaluate individual products and brands along those parameters for your preferences and needs. I may not buy everything from REI, but I often do, and these posts are a big reason why.
- Reubachi 3y ago
  Tangential, but about REI and their "real enthusiast" nature.... I've been an REI member for.....many many years. I stop by every time I visit the whites in NH, so probs 6-10 times a year. I have not purchased a single item in years. costs are out of control. "glamour hiking/camping" customers are making REI more off of camping meals and north face t shirts than they ever have off survivalist classes or good quality hiking gear from france. REI branded "hiking pants" are 100 USD. Made in china, lowest quality possible. My 7 dollar puma running pants are exactly the same and saw me hike through ireland just fine.
  - seanp2k2 3y ago
    >REI branded "hiking pants" are 100 USD. Made in china, lowest quality possible. My 7 dollar puma running pants are exactly the same and saw me hike through ireland just fine. False. A lot of REI brand stuff is made by the same factories that make stuff for other high-end outdoor brands. They still tend to use higher-quality fabrics and construction. They tend to use things like YKK zippers that stand up to years of use. They’ll typically have bar tacks and double stitching in high-stress areas so they won’t fail when you actually use them. They also tend to get really positive reviews on most of their REI-brand items, and their warranty is great. Lastly, there are usually great sales on their REI-branded stuff, so it’s not hard to get 30-50% off the already-lower-than-other-brands price. Yes, they do make some hiking pants that are $100 right now, but they also have others that are $50 and $60. Do you need high-end hiking-specific pants to hike? No, but I find that they can be much more comfortable and sweat-wicking + fast-drying, in addition to lightweight yet durable with plenty of useful pockets and construction that lasts years. I find that many folks who make comments like this are the same folks complaining that nothing is made in the US anymore and nothing lasts anymore. Both are untrue, it’s just that the bottom end of the market has proven much more popular with consumers, and many more companies have made ever cheaper and lower-quality products available to satisfy this demand. A positive take would be that it’s great how we have so much variety available in quality and price points for any given product today. A more negative view is that we’ve made the good stuff even more expensive as now it’s they’re niche luxury items instead of just having the common versions be decent quality because people keep buying the cheapest possible junk regardless of quality because they’re not intelligent enough to understand or appreciate the difference nor the global economics which affect manufacture and distribution of these goods.
greggsy 3y ago
rtings.com does a good job of rating things according to use case, like a monitor might be rated of ‘Office’ or ‘Gaming’, and they detail how that scoring works too. Notebookcheck.com is the only computer review site I’ll go to, simply because of their attention to detail and consistency around things like display specs. I just wish they’d make that data easier to consume.
Semaphor 3y ago
It’s what annoys me of German darling test.de (Stiftung Warentest, they were set up as a trust by the government to avoid any kind of outside influence, customers pay for their data), their reviews are complete black boxes, no idea why anything was highly rated and there is no real background. I far prefer ETM-Testmagazin.de, they are a for-profit company and also sell their tests, but they actually give you all their testing & measurement data while still giving recommendations and textual reviews. Maybe they are scummy, and I can’t tell, but considering that I find stiftung warentest mostly useless, they are still far superior.
- tethys 3y ago
  > their reviews are complete black boxes They are certainly not "complete black boxes". This page [0], for example, explains in detail their test procedure for vacuum cleaners. Just an excerpt on durability testing (via deepl): > Impact test (500 cycles): The hoovers drive over thresholds 10 000 times and bump into posts 1 000 times. > Drop test: The suction nozzle must survive 1 200 drops from a height of 80 centimetres. > Cable pull-out test: 6 000 pulls. > Test of hose attachments: 40 000 swings with the connection nozzle clamped. > Squeezing the pipes, hoses and auxiliary air adjusters: The testers load them with about 70 kilograms for ten seconds. [0]: https://www.test.de/Staubsauger-im-Test-1838262-1838266/ https://www.test.de/Staubsauger-im-Test-1838262-1838266/
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    That is one of the better ones, most (or at least anything I ever looked at) have far shorter and less detailed "so testen wir" sections. But I guess complete blackbox is incorrect. I’d still want actual data in most cases.
    - cgeier 3y ago
      I would presume they are doing it on purpose, so that industry doesn't optimize for their tests when they develop their next product.
shwoopdiwoop 3y ago
Lee Valley does this for me for anything tools and garden related. The Discover section on their website is excellent for beginners! https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/discover https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/discover
cainxinth 3y ago
Most major product categories have their own niche subreddit and many are excellent for that kind of advice. Here are some I recommend: r/VacuumCleaners, r/OfficeChairs, r/rawdenim/, r/RunningShoeGeeks, r/goodyearwelt, r/Monitors.
- simplyluke 3y ago
  Marketers have been aware of this for years and savvy brands have invested heavily in astroturfing enthusiast forums with legitimate-looking content promoting their products. That coupled with weird group-think dynamics leading to cult opinions that aren't well grounded has made the "look it up on reddit" path a lot less reliable in the past 5 years.

by iamwil 3y ago

danudey 3y ago

> I've always wanted a site that--instead of telling which product was the best--told me how to look for quality in the category I'm interested in. What does good look like? What makes a good quality water hose? What are the unsung features and considerations for drying hooks? What does quality look like in jeans? Am I paying for the brand or an actual meticulous craft? This would have been very useful for me, even back when Wirecutter was the best option available. Living in Canada means that I have reduced access to specific models of items; Wirecutter might recommend something great that I can buy on Amazon, or it might recommend something great that literally no retailer in Canada sells, or which costs twice as much in Canada as it does in the US for some reason. Sometimes I was able to grab the runner-up, or they would mention in the review that their pick, the DDW1345-B was 'nearly identical to the DDW1344-A, but with three extra HDMI ports but the same tungsten-carbide drill bits', so I could pick up the DDW1344-A knowing that if I didn't need those ports it was essentially the same as a recommendation. It was endlessly frustrating, though, when they would recommend exactly what I was looking for (a combination air purifier/humidifier/oscillating fan!) for a reasonable price ($200!) which I either couldn't get or couldn't justify the Canadian price of ($450 plus $88 shipping, arrives in three months). I ended up finding other sites which offered perhaps less rigorous testing but would recommend things I could actually get (shoutout to RTings for even more in-depth testing of home theatre equipment and also being located in Canada). > I'd rather have a few quality things, rather than a whole bunch of good enough things that I'd throw away next year. This reminds me of a girl I once dated. She kept criticizing me for spending $8.99 on a water pitcher when I could get one at the dollar store "for like a buck" and "just replace it every year". It blew my mind. Why do I want to go shopping for a new water pitcher every year when I can just buy one and use it for way longer than our relationship is going to last?

pallas_athena 3y ago

You may want Rtings? They have detail methodology for each product category. For example, TV [1] If you open a random TV ([2]) and hover on the "(?)" buttons on the right, you can see the breakdown of each test, and if you click on each test it will give you the methods used. For example, input lag: [1] https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/changelogs/1-11 https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/changelogs/1-11 [2] https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/s90c-oled https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/s90c-oled [3] https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag

maypop 3y ago

The current chat models will attempt to help you do that. Might be sufficient?

mcphage 3y ago
Of course they will, they’ll answer whatever you ask. How do you know if what they’re saying is true?
coldtea 3y ago
You mean combine sort of related information from all over the internet into new statistically generated phrases that appear to answer the question, but still contain all kinds of hallucinations, fabrications, and wrong statements? Then yes, they do.

skybrian 3y ago

There are some products like that, but the purpose of many of these review articles is to tell you things you can't see for yourself unless you have a bunch of lab equipment and lots of time. Or in the case of Consumer Reports reliability ratings, a bunch of people you can survey.

noitpmeder 3y ago
I'd say that consumer reports is my.most trustworthy option for the categories it covers.

SloopJon 3y ago

Yes, although Wirecutter is frequently one of the inputs into my buying decision, I find the one-size-fits-all approach annoying at times--this is the best power strip, because we believe everyone needs at least eight outlets, and twelve is better, but more than twelve is too many. Well maybe I think anything with more than six outlets is too big, or maybe a right-angle plug is my most important criterion. I can sometimes pick through "The competition" and find something that is slightly less awesome or slightly pricier, but that section reads like you'd be dumb to buy this model instead of our top pick, which also comes in purple.

jyunwai 3y ago

Your approach to ask specific questions is a good one. I've found that the key to avoiding persuasion by reviewers with undisclosed conflicts of interest—which includes Reddit comments made by people who bought accounts with a posting history to promote a product, and even YouTube video creators who do not disclose their sponsorships—is to pay close attention to the specific details of reviews. Paid reviews often have lots of emotional arguments (such as "I've been missing out," "I can't imagine life without it," or "I LOVE the one I have") without substance. Even if some of these comments are from people who are genuinely happy, the comments are still uninformative and don't help you understand the strengths and weaknesses of a product, versus alternatives. More detailed reviews—especially those that include fairly-written comparisons with compelling alternatives—give you the information to think critically and make your own judgement on whether a product or service is worth purchasing. For product research, I've also found it useful to seek out negative reports or complaints about products breaking over time. That can help you factor in the long-term costs of owning something new: you can learn that you may need to purchase replacement parts for a product over time (adding a recurring maintenance cost), or that certain products cannot be repaired, and will likely require a complete replacement after a few years.

senkora 3y ago

It’s obviously only for the product categories that they sell, but REI’s expert advice posts are close to this. For example, here is their post on downhill skis: https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/downhill-skis.html https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/downhill-skis.html They explain all of the parameters that matter when making a decision on what to buy. It’s left to you to evaluate individual products and brands along those parameters for your preferences and needs. I may not buy everything from REI, but I often do, and these posts are a big reason why.

Reubachi 3y ago
Tangential, but about REI and their "real enthusiast" nature.... I've been an REI member for.....many many years. I stop by every time I visit the whites in NH, so probs 6-10 times a year. I have not purchased a single item in years. costs are out of control. "glamour hiking/camping" customers are making REI more off of camping meals and north face t shirts than they ever have off survivalist classes or good quality hiking gear from france. REI branded "hiking pants" are 100 USD. Made in china, lowest quality possible. My 7 dollar puma running pants are exactly the same and saw me hike through ireland just fine.
- seanp2k2 3y ago
  >REI branded "hiking pants" are 100 USD. Made in china, lowest quality possible. My 7 dollar puma running pants are exactly the same and saw me hike through ireland just fine. False. A lot of REI brand stuff is made by the same factories that make stuff for other high-end outdoor brands. They still tend to use higher-quality fabrics and construction. They tend to use things like YKK zippers that stand up to years of use. They’ll typically have bar tacks and double stitching in high-stress areas so they won’t fail when you actually use them. They also tend to get really positive reviews on most of their REI-brand items, and their warranty is great. Lastly, there are usually great sales on their REI-branded stuff, so it’s not hard to get 30-50% off the already-lower-than-other-brands price. Yes, they do make some hiking pants that are $100 right now, but they also have others that are $50 and $60. Do you need high-end hiking-specific pants to hike? No, but I find that they can be much more comfortable and sweat-wicking + fast-drying, in addition to lightweight yet durable with plenty of useful pockets and construction that lasts years. I find that many folks who make comments like this are the same folks complaining that nothing is made in the US anymore and nothing lasts anymore. Both are untrue, it’s just that the bottom end of the market has proven much more popular with consumers, and many more companies have made ever cheaper and lower-quality products available to satisfy this demand. A positive take would be that it’s great how we have so much variety available in quality and price points for any given product today. A more negative view is that we’ve made the good stuff even more expensive as now it’s they’re niche luxury items instead of just having the common versions be decent quality because people keep buying the cheapest possible junk regardless of quality because they’re not intelligent enough to understand or appreciate the difference nor the global economics which affect manufacture and distribution of these goods.

greggsy 3y ago

rtings.com does a good job of rating things according to use case, like a monitor might be rated of ‘Office’ or ‘Gaming’, and they detail how that scoring works too. Notebookcheck.com is the only computer review site I’ll go to, simply because of their attention to detail and consistency around things like display specs. I just wish they’d make that data easier to consume.

Semaphor 3y ago

It’s what annoys me of German darling test.de (Stiftung Warentest, they were set up as a trust by the government to avoid any kind of outside influence, customers pay for their data), their reviews are complete black boxes, no idea why anything was highly rated and there is no real background. I far prefer ETM-Testmagazin.de, they are a for-profit company and also sell their tests, but they actually give you all their testing & measurement data while still giving recommendations and textual reviews. Maybe they are scummy, and I can’t tell, but considering that I find stiftung warentest mostly useless, they are still far superior.

tethys 3y ago
> their reviews are complete black boxes They are certainly not "complete black boxes". This page [0], for example, explains in detail their test procedure for vacuum cleaners. Just an excerpt on durability testing (via deepl): > Impact test (500 cycles): The hoovers drive over thresholds 10 000 times and bump into posts 1 000 times. > Drop test: The suction nozzle must survive 1 200 drops from a height of 80 centimetres. > Cable pull-out test: 6 000 pulls. > Test of hose attachments: 40 000 swings with the connection nozzle clamped. > Squeezing the pipes, hoses and auxiliary air adjusters: The testers load them with about 70 kilograms for ten seconds. [0]: https://www.test.de/Staubsauger-im-Test-1838262-1838266/ https://www.test.de/Staubsauger-im-Test-1838262-1838266/
- Semaphor 3y ago
  That is one of the better ones, most (or at least anything I ever looked at) have far shorter and less detailed "so testen wir" sections. But I guess complete blackbox is incorrect. I’d still want actual data in most cases.
  - cgeier 3y ago
    I would presume they are doing it on purpose, so that industry doesn't optimize for their tests when they develop their next product.

shwoopdiwoop 3y ago

Lee Valley does this for me for anything tools and garden related. The Discover section on their website is excellent for beginners! https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/discover https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/discover

cainxinth 3y ago

Most major product categories have their own niche subreddit and many are excellent for that kind of advice. Here are some I recommend: r/VacuumCleaners, r/OfficeChairs, r/rawdenim/, r/RunningShoeGeeks, r/goodyearwelt, r/Monitors.

simplyluke 3y ago
Marketers have been aware of this for years and savvy brands have invested heavily in astroturfing enthusiast forums with legitimate-looking content promoting their products. That coupled with weird group-think dynamics leading to cult opinions that aren't well grounded has made the "look it up on reddit" path a lot less reliable in the past 5 years.