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> Consumer reports at least is known to be gamed I'd be interested to know more about this, but I haven't found much discussion of it when I search. My google

> Consumer reports at least is known to be gamed I'd be interested to know more about this, but I haven't found much discussion of it when I search. My google fu may be weak today.

gandalfgreybeer 3y ago
Not related to the topic on hand but I’ve felt my google fu diminish significantly over the past years. Not sure if it’s me or my google intuition just not matching the current algorithms
- Baeocystin 3y ago
  It's not you, it's google. Seriously.
- seventytwo 3y ago
  It’s google. Try Kagi.
somat 3y ago
On the whole I think consumer reports is one of the better review organizations out there. but for a hint of reader betrayal read up on what they did to the suzuki samurai. It is not exactly cut and dried, but it was found that consumer reports was testing to get a specific result. And due to the trust that people put in consumer reports that result killed the market for the samurai in the US.
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  Any examples after 1988?
  - somat 3y ago
    Not really, Like I said, I think they are one of the good guys, I am not sure if their testing methodology is any better than any one else. But they do try hard to remain independent from the manufacturers. I think of it as one black mark on their record and a reminder that even our heroes can slip up. By good methodology I think the best is the person who has a fleet of the things and a deep understanding of how they break, the next best is to take the thing apart and apply some industry specific analysis to it, then test it to destruction to see how it breaks. Ether one is beyond the grasp of the average joe, who only wants to buy one of the things and have it work. And almost no reviewers do this which is why the ones that do are so valuable.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Exactly this - they do try to remain independent but they sometimes obviously have biases towards certain operations of things. For example, the only thing I care about with toilets are that they don’t break and they always flush and clear. Literally nothing else matters, but to test that you gotta poop in them and that’s hard to reproduce scientifically. So weird substitutes like golf balls and whatnot are used instead. It’s also an integral problem with new car reviews, because you can’t review the durability of a new car, it’s an unknown. Substitutes end up dinging a car for a body panel alignment as much as a transmission replacement.
      - jstarfish 3y ago
        > to test that you gotta poop in them and that’s hard to reproduce scientifically. So weird substitutes like golf balls and whatnot are used instead. Nah, just bring in some large dogs. You'll never be without mighty turds to dispose of. Beyond that, entire rolls of toilet paper, socks, makeup cassettes, cigarettes, toy cars, bleach wipes, pads, tampons (with and without plastic applicators) and other nonfecal items are the things you should be testing your toilet with, since those are what will go down your pipe in production. My FIL is the type to insist on buying whichever toilet can suck down the most golf balls. Pooping at his house means never having to sheepishly ask for a plunger. His is like an airplane toilet.
      - rootusrootus 3y ago
        For anyone interested, CR has a write-up on how they test toilet flushing: https://www.consumerreports.org/toilets/what-happens-when-consumer-reports-tests-toilets-a8560423467/ https://www.consumerreports.org/toilets/what-happens-when-co...

> Consumer reports at least is known to be gamed I'd be interested to know more about this, but I haven't found much discussion of it when I search. My google fu may be weak today.

gandalfgreybeer 3y ago

Not related to the topic on hand but I’ve felt my google fu diminish significantly over the past years. Not sure if it’s me or my google intuition just not matching the current algorithms

Baeocystin 3y ago
It's not you, it's google. Seriously.
seventytwo 3y ago
It’s google. Try Kagi.

somat 3y ago

On the whole I think consumer reports is one of the better review organizations out there. but for a hint of reader betrayal read up on what they did to the suzuki samurai. It is not exactly cut and dried, but it was found that consumer reports was testing to get a specific result. And due to the trust that people put in consumer reports that result killed the market for the samurai in the US.

pseudalopex 3y ago
Any examples after 1988?
- somat 3y ago
  Not really, Like I said, I think they are one of the good guys, I am not sure if their testing methodology is any better than any one else. But they do try hard to remain independent from the manufacturers. I think of it as one black mark on their record and a reminder that even our heroes can slip up. By good methodology I think the best is the person who has a fleet of the things and a deep understanding of how they break, the next best is to take the thing apart and apply some industry specific analysis to it, then test it to destruction to see how it breaks. Ether one is beyond the grasp of the average joe, who only wants to buy one of the things and have it work. And almost no reviewers do this which is why the ones that do are so valuable.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Exactly this - they do try to remain independent but they sometimes obviously have biases towards certain operations of things. For example, the only thing I care about with toilets are that they don’t break and they always flush and clear. Literally nothing else matters, but to test that you gotta poop in them and that’s hard to reproduce scientifically. So weird substitutes like golf balls and whatnot are used instead. It’s also an integral problem with new car reviews, because you can’t review the durability of a new car, it’s an unknown. Substitutes end up dinging a car for a body panel alignment as much as a transmission replacement.
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      > to test that you gotta poop in them and that’s hard to reproduce scientifically. So weird substitutes like golf balls and whatnot are used instead. Nah, just bring in some large dogs. You'll never be without mighty turds to dispose of. Beyond that, entire rolls of toilet paper, socks, makeup cassettes, cigarettes, toy cars, bleach wipes, pads, tampons (with and without plastic applicators) and other nonfecal items are the things you should be testing your toilet with, since those are what will go down your pipe in production. My FIL is the type to insist on buying whichever toilet can suck down the most golf balls. Pooping at his house means never having to sheepishly ask for a plunger. His is like an airplane toilet.
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      For anyone interested, CR has a write-up on how they test toilet flushing: https://www.consumerreports.org/toilets/what-happens-when-consumer-reports-tests-toilets-a8560423467/ https://www.consumerreports.org/toilets/what-happens-when-co...