3 ms·

Anyone have any recommendations for those of us without attention spans? I've always wanted to mediate, but after a few attempts, I have started to question if

Anyone have any recommendations for those of us without attention spans? I've always wanted to mediate, but after a few attempts, I have started to question if it's more possible for some to partake in than others.

sharms 3y ago
This might not help and might sound new age / abstract: meditation is not continuous focus, but is about choosing to focus, letting thoughts pass, and when you recognize you are distracted to consciously let the distracting thought go, and return to focusing on what you intended to.
- hirvi74 3y ago
  I mean, isn't that what I have always done to begin with? For example, when reading a book, I can sometimes read a whole page without actually internalizing anything my eyes pretended to skim across. (My body can mimic the actions of reading, but my mind is somewhere else, if that makes things more clear). I have always done this with things like reading, conversations, work, etc.. When distracted I have to refocus myself on whatever I was supposed to be focusing on. Is that some kind of quasi-mediation still or something else?
  - krzat 3y ago
    It's like with exercise, regular life maintains muscles at some low level, but specific techniques (lifting) make it possible to get much stronger. Same goes with brain, you can train your imagination, focus, mental resilience, happiness via consistent practice.
whtrbt 3y ago
You're going to be battling with your attention a lot in the beginning. I think just making a habit of it regardless and putting in the time is necessary. You could always go on a retreat — you'll have very limited options for distractions. It might sound like an extreme thing to do, and maybe it is, but I did it without much prior practice and got a lot out of it.
- hirvi74 3y ago
  > You could always go on a retreat — you'll have very limited options for distractions. They would probably kick me out within 5 minutes of being there. That's what they used to do to me in classrooms when I was in my youth lol. I'll be honest though, even if a retreat would work, that is honestly far more effort than I would be willing to spend for something that I have no idea if it's even worth the time, effort, and money. I do appreciate the recommendation though, and since you went through the effort of replying to my request, I will at least look into as to not waste your time.
nabla9 3y ago
I have done zazen over 20 years and know many people who have ADHD and do it a lot. You need less than a second attention span. What you need is the ability to bring mind back endlessly. It's like learning to juggle, picking up juggling pins from the ground again and again. "The faculty of voluntarily bringing back a wandering attention, over and over again, is the very root of judgment, character and will." – William James
- hirvi74 3y ago
  How long am I supposed to bring my mind back for? Based on my past experiences: Every time I try, it's gone again so fast that that it's like an endless loop. And that's if I am conscious enough to catch it. Hell, my mind can wander for minutes at a time without me even realizing that I was supposed to be focusing on something else. Not trying to argue against your recommendations, but I am really trying to dig deeper into the topic to figure out where the disconnect I am facing is.
  - nabla9 3y ago
    > Every time I try, it's gone again so fast that that it's like an endless loop. Only advice I have to you is: 1. Do no take meditation advice from the internet. Or try to battle with your difficulties endlessly alone, with books, or the internet. Internet is full of fools. Deeply into the mediation who just try to be helpful, but have no experience (even if they claims so). 2. Start training in a group where teacher has trained for decades and taught others for a very long time to give you instructions (Happens often in religious Buddhist setting, but if they know what they are doing it does not matter, mindfulness teachers for profit generally don't know shit, they just repeat what they learned in the course).
  - tasuki 3y ago
    > How long am I supposed to bring my mind back for? One point of view is that once your mind no longer wanders, you no longer need concentration meditation. The whole purpose of the exercise is for you to learn to bring your mind back. Don't worry about your mind wandering, it's normal. When you notice, bring it back. There is no disconnect, you're doing fine.
dmux 3y ago
I’m in the same boat. I can’t do the sitting still type of meditation. I’ve found that strenuous exercise works best for me. Jogging for an hour and a half for example - long enough and at slow enough pace (so I’m not huffing and puffing) that the only thought in my mind is how sore my legs are.
akomtu 3y ago
"A newbie once met a dzogchen master: - Do you meditate? - Why meditate? - So you aren't distracted. - Am I distracted?" It's from one book about dzogchen. Rephrasing it: "- Do you practice balancing? - Why would I do that? - So you can stand upright. - Am I not standing upright?" (while the newbie is still crawling)
- hirvi74 3y ago
  I do not think I understand what this means. Is the point that the newbie does not understand what they are failing to achieve? Is the newbie just supposed to know it when they finally achieve whatever the goal is? Speaking of, what even is the goal? I understand mediation has benefits, and people that can succeed at it are usually never shy to sing its praises. However, I still do not understand what benefits one actually gets from it. If you want the honest truth, I have only wanted to mediate to fix various aliments in my life -- anxiety, stress, negative emotions, etc. in a healthy manner (assuming it even works for that). Perhaps it's my impulsive tendencies coming to light again, but I do not actually care about mediation, spiritual journeys, enlightenment, etc.. I just want to find some god damn relief that isn't just another form of copium.
  - akomtu 3y ago
    Books teaching meditation, such as lamrim, usually begin with a list of preliminary work to neutralise the typical negative conditions: lust is neutered by imagining disgusting things, pride is neutered by thinking about the dissolution of elements and so on. Most people will spend their lifetime combating these flaws. Once they are kept under control, meditation begins. The spiritual part is about the purpose of such interest in meditation.
Baeocystin 3y ago
I have ADHD, and meditation is one of the tools I use to help control my mind. It's the practice of acknowledging a passing thought without letting it consume my focus that has been most useful, not paying attention to a particular mind state itself, if that makes sense.

sharms 3y ago

This might not help and might sound new age / abstract: meditation is not continuous focus, but is about choosing to focus, letting thoughts pass, and when you recognize you are distracted to consciously let the distracting thought go, and return to focusing on what you intended to.

hirvi74 3y ago
I mean, isn't that what I have always done to begin with? For example, when reading a book, I can sometimes read a whole page without actually internalizing anything my eyes pretended to skim across. (My body can mimic the actions of reading, but my mind is somewhere else, if that makes things more clear). I have always done this with things like reading, conversations, work, etc.. When distracted I have to refocus myself on whatever I was supposed to be focusing on. Is that some kind of quasi-mediation still or something else?
- krzat 3y ago
  It's like with exercise, regular life maintains muscles at some low level, but specific techniques (lifting) make it possible to get much stronger. Same goes with brain, you can train your imagination, focus, mental resilience, happiness via consistent practice.

whtrbt 3y ago

You're going to be battling with your attention a lot in the beginning. I think just making a habit of it regardless and putting in the time is necessary. You could always go on a retreat — you'll have very limited options for distractions. It might sound like an extreme thing to do, and maybe it is, but I did it without much prior practice and got a lot out of it.

hirvi74 3y ago
> You could always go on a retreat — you'll have very limited options for distractions. They would probably kick me out within 5 minutes of being there. That's what they used to do to me in classrooms when I was in my youth lol. I'll be honest though, even if a retreat would work, that is honestly far more effort than I would be willing to spend for something that I have no idea if it's even worth the time, effort, and money. I do appreciate the recommendation though, and since you went through the effort of replying to my request, I will at least look into as to not waste your time.

nabla9 3y ago

I have done zazen over 20 years and know many people who have ADHD and do it a lot. You need less than a second attention span. What you need is the ability to bring mind back endlessly. It's like learning to juggle, picking up juggling pins from the ground again and again. "The faculty of voluntarily bringing back a wandering attention, over and over again, is the very root of judgment, character and will." – William James

hirvi74 3y ago
How long am I supposed to bring my mind back for? Based on my past experiences: Every time I try, it's gone again so fast that that it's like an endless loop. And that's if I am conscious enough to catch it. Hell, my mind can wander for minutes at a time without me even realizing that I was supposed to be focusing on something else. Not trying to argue against your recommendations, but I am really trying to dig deeper into the topic to figure out where the disconnect I am facing is.
- nabla9 3y ago
  > Every time I try, it's gone again so fast that that it's like an endless loop. Only advice I have to you is: 1. Do no take meditation advice from the internet. Or try to battle with your difficulties endlessly alone, with books, or the internet. Internet is full of fools. Deeply into the mediation who just try to be helpful, but have no experience (even if they claims so). 2. Start training in a group where teacher has trained for decades and taught others for a very long time to give you instructions (Happens often in religious Buddhist setting, but if they know what they are doing it does not matter, mindfulness teachers for profit generally don't know shit, they just repeat what they learned in the course).
- tasuki 3y ago
  > How long am I supposed to bring my mind back for? One point of view is that once your mind no longer wanders, you no longer need concentration meditation. The whole purpose of the exercise is for you to learn to bring your mind back. Don't worry about your mind wandering, it's normal. When you notice, bring it back. There is no disconnect, you're doing fine.

dmux 3y ago

I’m in the same boat. I can’t do the sitting still type of meditation. I’ve found that strenuous exercise works best for me. Jogging for an hour and a half for example - long enough and at slow enough pace (so I’m not huffing and puffing) that the only thought in my mind is how sore my legs are.

akomtu 3y ago

"A newbie once met a dzogchen master: - Do you meditate? - Why meditate? - So you aren't distracted. - Am I distracted?" It's from one book about dzogchen. Rephrasing it: "- Do you practice balancing? - Why would I do that? - So you can stand upright. - Am I not standing upright?" (while the newbie is still crawling)

hirvi74 3y ago
I do not think I understand what this means. Is the point that the newbie does not understand what they are failing to achieve? Is the newbie just supposed to know it when they finally achieve whatever the goal is? Speaking of, what even is the goal? I understand mediation has benefits, and people that can succeed at it are usually never shy to sing its praises. However, I still do not understand what benefits one actually gets from it. If you want the honest truth, I have only wanted to mediate to fix various aliments in my life -- anxiety, stress, negative emotions, etc. in a healthy manner (assuming it even works for that). Perhaps it's my impulsive tendencies coming to light again, but I do not actually care about mediation, spiritual journeys, enlightenment, etc.. I just want to find some god damn relief that isn't just another form of copium.
- akomtu 3y ago
  Books teaching meditation, such as lamrim, usually begin with a list of preliminary work to neutralise the typical negative conditions: lust is neutered by imagining disgusting things, pride is neutered by thinking about the dissolution of elements and so on. Most people will spend their lifetime combating these flaws. Once they are kept under control, meditation begins. The spiritual part is about the purpose of such interest in meditation.

Baeocystin 3y ago

I have ADHD, and meditation is one of the tools I use to help control my mind. It's the practice of acknowledging a passing thought without letting it consume my focus that has been most useful, not paying attention to a particular mind state itself, if that makes sense.