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I think it's worth pointing out that the 2008 financial crisis came on the heels of another event that had already done much to discredit elites and elite-adjac

I think it's worth pointing out that the 2008 financial crisis came on the heels of another event that had already done much to discredit elites and elite-adjacent "experts": the Iraq War. More specifically, the discrediting was caused by a combination of the deliberately dishonest or at best wildly inaccurate intel, the sense that pro-war elites in government and media were manufacturing consent for the war, and wrong predictions about how the war would go. The Snowden revelations of a few years later did not have as great of an impact as I would have wished, but I think that they too played some role in further discrediting elites. Given how much Trump's criticism of the Iraq War did to make criticism of that war a bi-partisan phenomenon, I find it unfortunate that he was too authoritarian to pair his criticism of that war with criticism of the NSA and that instead, he hinted that Snowden should be executed as a traitor.

tptacek 3y ago
There really is an elite consensus. The trouble is that you can't build an economic policy around that idea. Some things "elites" (of any stripe) believe are wrong, but some of them are right.
DerekBickerton 3y ago
> The Snowden revelations of a few years later did not have as great of an impact as I would have wished Saying Snowden's either a pariah or a hero is a very political stance either way, and I don't want to spout politics here on HN (That's not what HN is for, although political rants still slip through the cracks on HN). That said, the leaks did leave some aftermath[0]. All the tinfoilers, pre-Snowden had their suspicions confirmed in real, tangible ways. Yeah we knew abut ECHELON[1] but the Snowden leaks were far more substantial IMHO, and leaked at a time when The Internet was really starting to ramp up (in terms of all the services/tooling now available, and social media making leaps and bounds). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_Effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_Effect [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
Aunche 3y ago
>More specifically, the discrediting was caused by a combination of the deliberately dishonest or at best wildly inaccurate intel, the sense that pro-war elites in government and media were manufacturing consent for the war, and wrong predictions about how the war would go. IMO, this is what people tell themselves now because they don't want to admit that they genuinely supported to the war to begin with. The Iraq War and the War on Terror were very much populist wars motivated by American's wanting to get revenge on brown people. That's why Bush's approval skyrocketed after 9/11 and the capture of Saddam. Yes, a nonzero amount of elites supported or benefited from these wars, but you can say that about anything. You're not going to convince the government to spend trillions of dollars without a few experts on your side and others who profit off of it.

tptacek 3y ago

There really is an elite consensus. The trouble is that you can't build an economic policy around that idea. Some things "elites" (of any stripe) believe are wrong, but some of them are right.

DerekBickerton 3y ago

> The Snowden revelations of a few years later did not have as great of an impact as I would have wished Saying Snowden's either a pariah or a hero is a very political stance either way, and I don't want to spout politics here on HN (That's not what HN is for, although political rants still slip through the cracks on HN). That said, the leaks did leave some aftermath[0]. All the tinfoilers, pre-Snowden had their suspicions confirmed in real, tangible ways. Yeah we knew abut ECHELON[1] but the Snowden leaks were far more substantial IMHO, and leaked at a time when The Internet was really starting to ramp up (in terms of all the services/tooling now available, and social media making leaps and bounds). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_Effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_Effect [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Aunche 3y ago

>More specifically, the discrediting was caused by a combination of the deliberately dishonest or at best wildly inaccurate intel, the sense that pro-war elites in government and media were manufacturing consent for the war, and wrong predictions about how the war would go. IMO, this is what people tell themselves now because they don't want to admit that they genuinely supported to the war to begin with. The Iraq War and the War on Terror were very much populist wars motivated by American's wanting to get revenge on brown people. That's why Bush's approval skyrocketed after 9/11 and the capture of Saddam. Yes, a nonzero amount of elites supported or benefited from these wars, but you can say that about anything. You're not going to convince the government to spend trillions of dollars without a few experts on your side and others who profit off of it.