4 ms·

I read it and it doesn't help much. What helps with solving problems like math and algorithmic problems is to go through a lot of problems to see different pat

I read it and it doesn't help much. What helps with solving problems like math and algorithmic problems is to go through a lot of problems to see different patterns and strategies of solving problems. I'm talking about going through thousands of problems. That is very effective.

rahimnathwani 3y ago
This is consistent with a sentence on page 1 of the book: 'The student should acquire as much experience of independent work as possible.'
- jvanderbot 3y ago
  Not only that, my take on this book is it's meant to help you classify those patterns and better recall them by going through consistent triage and process.
mathisfun123 3y ago
> I'm talking about going through thousands of problems. you don't need thousands of problems. you don't even need hundreds, unless, no offense, your medium-term memory is very poor. personal anecdote 1: in between undergrad and grad school i decided i was gonna try this "solve all of the problems" approach, as opposed to my usual "sit there and ponder approach", in order to prepare for eventual quals in grad school. i started with calculus, using apostol's calculus (famous for its rigor and difficulty right?). some sections have double digits (maybe even 100? i don't remember) problems and invariably (no pun intended) by the time i got about a quarter of the way through they got trivially easy. i did finish and do all the problems in both volumes. i didn't feel i learned any of it better than the first time i took calc (wherein i didn't solve many at all beyond assignments). i did not keep on with this kind of slavish dedication and just skimmed the rest of the books. i didn't end up doing a phd in math but i did take math and cs theory classes and i did well. personal anecdote 2: after my MS i did hundreds of leetcode problems. it was roughly the same phenomenon: in every category it only took about a dozen to be able to solve the remainder trivially (yes even hard DP problems). and i'm willing to bet (if you're on this board) your memory is better than mine (i smoked incredible amounts of pot in high school...).
- ergocoder 3y ago
  Yes you'd need to go through a lot of problems because every problem is slightly different Realistically, it is rare that you would encounter hundreds of identical problems. Take realistic examples: topcoder.com, Facebook's Hacker cup, and Google codejam. Or any university exam. Or SAT. Or Olympiam math. Their problems are unique because they can't just create the same problems over and over again. There are also other aspects like solving the problems faster and being able to write up a solution correctly. Coding it correctly at the first try is really a magical moment.
- CBLT 3y ago
  100% agree. I went through a similar phase of being infatuated with work ethic, and all I got were the following three lessons learned: 1. Trying to "put more effort" into artifacts (e.g. note taking) while learning something the first time is counterproductive. Write something lightweight and put your focus on paying attention. 2. Do one intensive review session while you still remember the content. Either teach someone else or write a document that could teach someone else. It's an ineffective use of time to do that more than once, for later review of the material just skim what you wrote on your first review. 3. Everyone who offers advice is just telling you their life story, dressed up as a simple directive. "Work harder" often means they wished they worked harder in some part of their life. Treat it like any other life story: learn the lessons they did, but don't let it become baggage that you irrationally follow. Back on topic of Polya's How to Solve It, I took a no-credit uni course where the professor taught in Socratic style that expected us to (loosely) follow Polya's process. It was a great experience, and I've always been fond of Polya's steps because of it.
  - mathisfun123 3y ago
    > Everyone who offers advice is just telling you their life story, dressed up as a simple directive. "Work harder" often means they wished they worked harder in some part of their life. Treat it like any other life story: learn the lessons they did, but don't let it become baggage that you irrationally follow. I don't know how old you are but bravo - it took me a very very very long time to realize this. The converse to this is to always be very transparent and very careful when giving novices advice - when junior PhD students ask me about some kind success I've had I always make sure to emphasize the ways in which I got lucky first and only after talk about how I applied myself. Edit: and in full transparency, I believe i had this epiphany after at some point listening to the funny poem/song/thing (from the 90s): Everybody’s Free (to Wear SUNSCREEN): THE SUNSCREEN SONG (Class of ’99) https://youtu.be/sTJ7AzBIJoI https://youtu.be/sTJ7AzBIJoI which has a lyric >Be careful whose advice you buy but be patient with those who supply it >Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past >From the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts >And recycling it for more than it's worth I'm not one for sentimentality but that nicely captures it.
vl 3y ago
I read it as a kid and it was transformative. This is one of the rare "meta" books which really help when you are not exposed to meta concepts that much yet.
- mrelectric 3y ago
  Can you perhaps think of any other meta books in other (or same) domain?
  - titanomachy 3y ago
    "How to Read a Book"
    - hgsgm 3y ago
      And "How Not to Read"
hgsgm 3y ago
Maybe if you followed Polya you wouldn't need thousands of problems.
retrocryptid 3y ago
<snark> Yes, yes. I get it. We should all invest in your "LLM, but for Ride-Sharing" startup. </snark> Seriously thought... the pattern matching vs. rational directed approaches to general problem seem to have analogs to CNNs vs. Constraint Programming approaches to GAI. Maybe, in the same way that neural-networking solves certain types of problems brilliantly but not so much with other problems, rational directed problem solving and "work a lot of problems" / pattern matching have different problem domains in which they excel.

rahimnathwani 3y ago

This is consistent with a sentence on page 1 of the book: 'The student should acquire as much experience of independent work as possible.'

jvanderbot 3y ago
Not only that, my take on this book is it's meant to help you classify those patterns and better recall them by going through consistent triage and process.

mathisfun123 3y ago

> I'm talking about going through thousands of problems. you don't need thousands of problems. you don't even need hundreds, unless, no offense, your medium-term memory is very poor. personal anecdote 1: in between undergrad and grad school i decided i was gonna try this "solve all of the problems" approach, as opposed to my usual "sit there and ponder approach", in order to prepare for eventual quals in grad school. i started with calculus, using apostol's calculus (famous for its rigor and difficulty right?). some sections have double digits (maybe even 100? i don't remember) problems and invariably (no pun intended) by the time i got about a quarter of the way through they got trivially easy. i did finish and do all the problems in both volumes. i didn't feel i learned any of it better than the first time i took calc (wherein i didn't solve many at all beyond assignments). i did not keep on with this kind of slavish dedication and just skimmed the rest of the books. i didn't end up doing a phd in math but i did take math and cs theory classes and i did well. personal anecdote 2: after my MS i did hundreds of leetcode problems. it was roughly the same phenomenon: in every category it only took about a dozen to be able to solve the remainder trivially (yes even hard DP problems). and i'm willing to bet (if you're on this board) your memory is better than mine (i smoked incredible amounts of pot in high school...).

ergocoder 3y ago
Yes you'd need to go through a lot of problems because every problem is slightly different Realistically, it is rare that you would encounter hundreds of identical problems. Take realistic examples: topcoder.com, Facebook's Hacker cup, and Google codejam. Or any university exam. Or SAT. Or Olympiam math. Their problems are unique because they can't just create the same problems over and over again. There are also other aspects like solving the problems faster and being able to write up a solution correctly. Coding it correctly at the first try is really a magical moment.
CBLT 3y ago
100% agree. I went through a similar phase of being infatuated with work ethic, and all I got were the following three lessons learned: 1. Trying to "put more effort" into artifacts (e.g. note taking) while learning something the first time is counterproductive. Write something lightweight and put your focus on paying attention. 2. Do one intensive review session while you still remember the content. Either teach someone else or write a document that could teach someone else. It's an ineffective use of time to do that more than once, for later review of the material just skim what you wrote on your first review. 3. Everyone who offers advice is just telling you their life story, dressed up as a simple directive. "Work harder" often means they wished they worked harder in some part of their life. Treat it like any other life story: learn the lessons they did, but don't let it become baggage that you irrationally follow. Back on topic of Polya's How to Solve It, I took a no-credit uni course where the professor taught in Socratic style that expected us to (loosely) follow Polya's process. It was a great experience, and I've always been fond of Polya's steps because of it.
- mathisfun123 3y ago
  > Everyone who offers advice is just telling you their life story, dressed up as a simple directive. "Work harder" often means they wished they worked harder in some part of their life. Treat it like any other life story: learn the lessons they did, but don't let it become baggage that you irrationally follow. I don't know how old you are but bravo - it took me a very very very long time to realize this. The converse to this is to always be very transparent and very careful when giving novices advice - when junior PhD students ask me about some kind success I've had I always make sure to emphasize the ways in which I got lucky first and only after talk about how I applied myself. Edit: and in full transparency, I believe i had this epiphany after at some point listening to the funny poem/song/thing (from the 90s): Everybody’s Free (to Wear SUNSCREEN): THE SUNSCREEN SONG (Class of ’99) https://youtu.be/sTJ7AzBIJoI https://youtu.be/sTJ7AzBIJoI which has a lyric >Be careful whose advice you buy but be patient with those who supply it >Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past >From the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts >And recycling it for more than it's worth I'm not one for sentimentality but that nicely captures it.

vl 3y ago

I read it as a kid and it was transformative. This is one of the rare "meta" books which really help when you are not exposed to meta concepts that much yet.

mrelectric 3y ago
Can you perhaps think of any other meta books in other (or same) domain?
- titanomachy 3y ago
  "How to Read a Book"
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    And "How Not to Read"

hgsgm 3y ago

Maybe if you followed Polya you wouldn't need thousands of problems.

retrocryptid 3y ago

<snark> Yes, yes. I get it. We should all invest in your "LLM, but for Ride-Sharing" startup. </snark> Seriously thought... the pattern matching vs. rational directed approaches to general problem seem to have analogs to CNNs vs. Constraint Programming approaches to GAI. Maybe, in the same way that neural-networking solves certain types of problems brilliantly but not so much with other problems, rational directed problem solving and "work a lot of problems" / pattern matching have different problem domains in which they excel.