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What do you mean, envious? I thought it was long since established that the US does the same to their so called citizens. https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https:

by Gud 3y ago

What do you mean, envious? I thought it was long since established that the US does the same to their so called citizens. https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying

freedomben 3y ago
You don't think China has and uses tools that the US can't? That they're at the same level? I'm a major fan/paying contributor to the EFF, but that seems absurd to me. We don't have to equate the US with China in order to say the US is doing terrible things and needs to stop. In fact doing so just distracts from the issue by changing it into an argument about something else.
- Gud 3y ago
  The US intelligence agencies is literally copying all the traffic from every US citizen(except maybe if you're some elite sorcerer wizard hacker) in real time and have been doing so for almost two decades. They have the same capabilities as China. And yes, the US and China are not the same. But they both have the same capabilities. Parent poster argued that the Chinese government had a greater capacity to spy on their citizens("better tools"). I simply pointed out that it's false.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    IIRC it was just the metadata (which is still a very big deal ftr) not all the bytes. Also you would have to believe that they have compromised AES/RSA/etc in order to break the encryption. China also has a lot more surveillance and filtering controls, especially with traffic leaving/entering the great firewall. They have the social credit system and things as well, which the US could have with credit card and banking information, but (at least for now) the US has to get a warrant whereas the Chinese just gobble all of it up. That's probably moot though since the banks will store that info forever so a warrant can be gotten later. Anyway we could debate whether those are "tools" or not. But overall I'd bet we agree on the vast majority of things. Even if I think you're being a bit hyperbolic, it always makes me happy to see other people passionate about this topic, so thank you!
    - Gud 3y ago
      And here I was thinking I wasn’t hyperbolic enough! Have a nice day

by Gud 3y ago

What do you mean, envious? I thought it was long since established that the US does the same to their so called citizens. https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying

freedomben 3y ago

You don't think China has and uses tools that the US can't? That they're at the same level? I'm a major fan/paying contributor to the EFF, but that seems absurd to me. We don't have to equate the US with China in order to say the US is doing terrible things and needs to stop. In fact doing so just distracts from the issue by changing it into an argument about something else.

Gud 3y ago
The US intelligence agencies is literally copying all the traffic from every US citizen(except maybe if you're some elite sorcerer wizard hacker) in real time and have been doing so for almost two decades. They have the same capabilities as China. And yes, the US and China are not the same. But they both have the same capabilities. Parent poster argued that the Chinese government had a greater capacity to spy on their citizens("better tools"). I simply pointed out that it's false.
- freedomben 3y ago
  IIRC it was just the metadata (which is still a very big deal ftr) not all the bytes. Also you would have to believe that they have compromised AES/RSA/etc in order to break the encryption. China also has a lot more surveillance and filtering controls, especially with traffic leaving/entering the great firewall. They have the social credit system and things as well, which the US could have with credit card and banking information, but (at least for now) the US has to get a warrant whereas the Chinese just gobble all of it up. That's probably moot though since the banks will store that info forever so a warrant can be gotten later. Anyway we could debate whether those are "tools" or not. But overall I'd bet we agree on the vast majority of things. Even if I think you're being a bit hyperbolic, it always makes me happy to see other people passionate about this topic, so thank you!
  - Gud 3y ago
    And here I was thinking I wasn’t hyperbolic enough! Have a nice day