5 ms·

5 minutes isn't fair. I took a look at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=go http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64

by lusr 15y ago

5 minutes isn't fair. I took a look at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=go http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=al... first. OK so Go is about on par with Mono's C# performance and uses up to a 1/3 of the memory with code that is more concise. That's cool because it means I'm not sacrificing anything over the platform I specialize in (C#; although the last time I looked at the Alioth C# code I thought I saw some obvious improvements). I see there is a Go STOMP client for Apache Apollo, which means I can supplement the existing code in my current project without having to rewrite everything. So next I looked at: * http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html * http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html Way more than 5 minutes. Where are generics or do I have to learn some new construct? Wait a minute, is this thing object oriented or what? If not, why not? Do I have to learn some new philosophy? Already feeling a sense of dread having been through this game 10s of times before with other languages. I decided to research a bit to see if anybody else with a C# background had looked into Go. I found this, which confirmed my feelings that Go is for people who probably haven't given C# or Java a fair chance: http://www.jondavis.net/techblog/?tag=/c%23+vs+go http://www.jondavis.net/techblog/?tag=/c%23+vs+go . That's when I also discovered searching for 'Go' on Google is impossible because of the poor choice of name and decided I wasn't going to spend any more time on it, already being aware that aside from what looks like a total philosophy change (without it being clear whether it'll be worth it), I'm going to lose out on my awesome set of development tools (Visual Studio), years of C# experience and the HUGE .NET ecosystem, in exchange for what? Relatively unimportant performance advantages? At the end of the day, if performance/memory are issues I can just add more EC2 nodes to my architecture. At some point I'll hopefully make enough money to pay other people to worry about the technology. That being said I realize that as a developer who wants to be a manager/owner I'm probably in the minority of readers here.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
adgar 15y ago
It seems you deleted your comment asking why you were downvoted. Here's why you were downvoted: > Way more than 5 minutes. Where are generics or do I have to learn some new construct? Wait a minute, is this thing object oriented or what? If not, why not? Do I have to learn some new philosophy? Already feeling a sense of dread having been through this game 10s of times before with other languages. If you didn't get past the fact that Go isn't object oriented, then you clearly didn't get very far into the language. And your resistance to "some new philosophy" shows you aren't interested in a new language with real ideas, but at most a different way to express what you already know and do while programming.
- lusr 15y ago
  It was no longer relevant and seemed to attract more downvotes. I have spent years with x86 + MIPS assembly language, C, C++, C#, Visual Basic and Q[uick]BASIC; months with Java, Scheme, Python, PHP; days/weeks with AS3, HaXE, Erlang, Scala, E, Objective-C, Ruby, Delphi, Pascal, Concurrent Clean, Prolog, ADA. I've probably missed a few. My point is (a) I'm not a lazy developer that doesn't enjoy learning new things or experimenting with new languages and (b) I have found a great ecosystem in .NET and C# and I've been around the block; at first sight I simply cannot see a compelling reason to invest more of my increasingly limited time into learning Go. If Go has great new vision or compelling difference from other languages then why isn't it there on the homepage at golang.org jumping out at me? All I see are technical details and a huge guide. While I applaud clear, detailed documentation, I'm not going to read through that documentation unless I have some idea of the payoff. I just spent half of my weekend researching and investigating a ton of message brokers for my current project because there's value in the outcome. Researching a new programming language needs to have a huge payoff, or I need to have lots of free time (which unfortunately I don't). There is absolutely nothing to sell me on the language on the homepage, or in the OP's blog post, and nothing to distinguish it from the 10s of other new languages out there. The FAQ touches on the fact that e.g. it's not object-oriented but not WHY. It just mentions "interfaces" and says "we believe". So I'll have to go and play with it and build something substantial to find out what they might be talking about. The goals mentioned in the FAQ are really not interesting (have you read it?) - perhaps the ideas around concurrency are convenient but they are limited in scope and don't directly address the more complex concurrency issues better than my current platform that I'm facing while I build a web crawler. To be clear once again: It may be that Go is absolutely amazing and awesome... but if I had to spent days looking into every new language that pops up on the Internet I would never get anything done, and this is the point I was trying to convey in response to the parent's post. It's still on my list to look into but I just don't have a week to commit to what looks like quite a lot to manually digest.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
j45 15y ago
Hi, the idea with "5 minutes" is to find the first thing that wasn't as you might have thought it was. Then, you keep finding more, and more. Ultimately we will find things we like, or are willing to suffer and cover up (true in every community). It's just how open minded we really are.
drivebyacct2 15y ago
>Already feeling a sense of dread having been through this game 10s of times before with other languages. What? I'm a student still learning new languages and it took me no time to look up and quickly grok duck typing. If that prevents you from learning a language... Seriously... it's an hour to skim and read through. Hour or two to put together a decent non-trivial server demonstrating channels. I really don't know what your big long rant is about. It's not hard to find reasons Go was designed the way it was, find what it's goal is and read enough intro docs to get up and coding with it easily.

by lusr 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

adgar 15y ago

It seems you deleted your comment asking why you were downvoted. Here's why you were downvoted: > Way more than 5 minutes. Where are generics or do I have to learn some new construct? Wait a minute, is this thing object oriented or what? If not, why not? Do I have to learn some new philosophy? Already feeling a sense of dread having been through this game 10s of times before with other languages. If you didn't get past the fact that Go isn't object oriented, then you clearly didn't get very far into the language. And your resistance to "some new philosophy" shows you aren't interested in a new language with real ideas, but at most a different way to express what you already know and do while programming.

lusr 15y ago
It was no longer relevant and seemed to attract more downvotes. I have spent years with x86 + MIPS assembly language, C, C++, C#, Visual Basic and Q[uick]BASIC; months with Java, Scheme, Python, PHP; days/weeks with AS3, HaXE, Erlang, Scala, E, Objective-C, Ruby, Delphi, Pascal, Concurrent Clean, Prolog, ADA. I've probably missed a few. My point is (a) I'm not a lazy developer that doesn't enjoy learning new things or experimenting with new languages and (b) I have found a great ecosystem in .NET and C# and I've been around the block; at first sight I simply cannot see a compelling reason to invest more of my increasingly limited time into learning Go. If Go has great new vision or compelling difference from other languages then why isn't it there on the homepage at golang.org jumping out at me? All I see are technical details and a huge guide. While I applaud clear, detailed documentation, I'm not going to read through that documentation unless I have some idea of the payoff. I just spent half of my weekend researching and investigating a ton of message brokers for my current project because there's value in the outcome. Researching a new programming language needs to have a huge payoff, or I need to have lots of free time (which unfortunately I don't). There is absolutely nothing to sell me on the language on the homepage, or in the OP's blog post, and nothing to distinguish it from the 10s of other new languages out there. The FAQ touches on the fact that e.g. it's not object-oriented but not WHY. It just mentions "interfaces" and says "we believe". So I'll have to go and play with it and build something substantial to find out what they might be talking about. The goals mentioned in the FAQ are really not interesting (have you read it?) - perhaps the ideas around concurrency are convenient but they are limited in scope and don't directly address the more complex concurrency issues better than my current platform that I'm facing while I build a web crawler. To be clear once again: It may be that Go is absolutely amazing and awesome... but if I had to spent days looking into every new language that pops up on the Internet I would never get anything done, and this is the point I was trying to convey in response to the parent's post. It's still on my list to look into but I just don't have a week to commit to what looks like quite a lot to manually digest.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

j45 15y ago

Hi, the idea with "5 minutes" is to find the first thing that wasn't as you might have thought it was. Then, you keep finding more, and more. Ultimately we will find things we like, or are willing to suffer and cover up (true in every community). It's just how open minded we really are.

drivebyacct2 15y ago

>Already feeling a sense of dread having been through this game 10s of times before with other languages. What? I'm a student still learning new languages and it took me no time to look up and quickly grok duck typing. If that prevents you from learning a language... Seriously... it's an hour to skim and read through. Hour or two to put together a decent non-trivial server demonstrating channels. I really don't know what your big long rant is about. It's not hard to find reasons Go was designed the way it was, find what it's goal is and read enough intro docs to get up and coding with it easily.