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Hi I hope this doesn’t come off as insensitive. I just wanted to say some things which I realize is a huge edge case but maybe could be helpful to a young talen

Hi I hope this doesn’t come off as insensitive. I just wanted to say some things which I realize is a huge edge case but maybe could be helpful to a young talented Canadian. So I grew up in section 8 housing in the US. This is government housing for very low income. I was able to work really hard and work my way up to buying an SFH worth around $955k CAD on my own as a software engineer. I am in My early 30s and live on my own. It might be possible for a dink tech couple to come here and work in tech for some time and come back to Toronto and buy that way . I know this is super awful that I’m even fronting this idea . I am so sorry this is happening .

alephnerd 3y ago
That's why most Canadian educated STEM grads are leaving for the US. They can earn 3-4x what they'd earn in Canada, and can then use that nest egg to either buy a house back up north, or just live in the US. If you're from BC, you may as well just live in Seattle at that point as you're still close enough to family. Tbf I'm from BC, and people there seem to be more open to moving away to other cities or even the US.
- somerandomqaguy 3y ago
  It's not most but it is a lot. https://brocku.ca/social-sciences/political-science/wp-content/uploads/sites/153/Reversing-the-Brain-Drain.pdf https://brocku.ca/social-sciences/political-science/wp-conte... ============================================================== Evidence of Brain Drain in STEM fields • One in four of the STEM graduates in our sample opted to work outside of Canada. Talent Migration is High in Technology-Focused STEM Programs • Two thirds (66%) of software engineering students are leaving Canada for work after graduation. • Brain drain is also high in: computer engineering (30%), computer science (30%),engineering science (27%), and systems design engineering (24%). • Programs such as biology (0%) and chemistry (3.5%) have low migration of graduates. ============================================================ To be fair though I haven't gone through the report in detail so there may be biases in there I haven't noticed.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    The various governments also seem to go out of their way to alienate tech workers. They are exempt from overtime, and other abuse protections that apply to all other office workers. I’m aware that the US doesn’t have this either, but I could probably double my take home by moving 60 miles south. There’s a reason that game studios love doing crunch in Canada…
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    True! I was just limiting myself to my friend group (most UBC and Waterloo grads, so not the most representative). Also I should have said Software, Electronics, and Healthcare - those STEM fields are more likely to leave for the US.
itsoktocry 3y ago
>It might be possible for a dink tech couple to come here and work in tech for some time and come back to Toronto and buy that way So, come live in a closet in SF for 10 years while you pocket money? How are young people supposed to establish roots?
- metalforever 3y ago
  I grew up in rural Appalachia in coal country. there’s no generational money. I am not married and don’t split expenses. I taught myself programming and worked my way up, yeah. I sold all of my stuff to get into the property market in the SF Bay Area (I own a SFH with no family help, no rsu buyout and no partner). This is what I’m suggesting, yes. It sucks, I realize it’s unrealistic . I am just telling you how I got it done. I’m greatly sorry about how things in Canada are going. I wish I did not have to make this unrealistic suggestion.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    You did pull yourself from the bootstraps, but you also had the benefit of being a citizen of the US. The economy is large enough in the US that there are plenty of opportunities. The entire economy of Canada is roughly the size of Florida, yet has 2x the population. If you can't find a job or opportunity in Orlando or Tampa, you can always move to Atlanta or Dallas or NYC or Charlotte or Sacramento. Within Canada you don't have a similar option - most jobs are located in a handful of highly expensive cities (Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary), which limits your mobility. There is no city in Canada that has both relatively high wages and relatively low CoL. There is no equivalent of Phoenix or Columbus or Dallas within Canada.
    - metalforever 3y ago
      No I spent years slaving away doing hard programming work during the Great Recession for $15 an hour. Additionally and separately, what you are saying about high paying jobs in a select few cities is true here also. I worked for a company based out of Atlanta and got paid like crap . There isn’t really a lot of tech jobs in the tier 2 cities you are bringing up.
TrackerFF 3y ago
Yes, but...what about nurses? teachers? daycare workers? construction workers? and the list goes on - cities don't run on software engineers, to put it that way.
ChumpGPT 3y ago
I left Toronto Canada 30 plus years ago for a Tech job in the US. I earned more in my first 10 years than I would have earned in my entire working life had I stayed in Canada. Anyone who has the opportunity to land a job in the US would never consider going back to Canada because it just doesn't make sense. If you're making 150K USD or 300k as a couple, a flight back to visit family or friends once a month is trivial.

alephnerd 3y ago

That's why most Canadian educated STEM grads are leaving for the US. They can earn 3-4x what they'd earn in Canada, and can then use that nest egg to either buy a house back up north, or just live in the US. If you're from BC, you may as well just live in Seattle at that point as you're still close enough to family. Tbf I'm from BC, and people there seem to be more open to moving away to other cities or even the US.

somerandomqaguy 3y ago
It's not most but it is a lot. https://brocku.ca/social-sciences/political-science/wp-content/uploads/sites/153/Reversing-the-Brain-Drain.pdf https://brocku.ca/social-sciences/political-science/wp-conte... ============================================================== Evidence of Brain Drain in STEM fields • One in four of the STEM graduates in our sample opted to work outside of Canada. Talent Migration is High in Technology-Focused STEM Programs • Two thirds (66%) of software engineering students are leaving Canada for work after graduation. • Brain drain is also high in: computer engineering (30%), computer science (30%),engineering science (27%), and systems design engineering (24%). • Programs such as biology (0%) and chemistry (3.5%) have low migration of graduates. ============================================================ To be fair though I haven't gone through the report in detail so there may be biases in there I haven't noticed.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  The various governments also seem to go out of their way to alienate tech workers. They are exempt from overtime, and other abuse protections that apply to all other office workers. I’m aware that the US doesn’t have this either, but I could probably double my take home by moving 60 miles south. There’s a reason that game studios love doing crunch in Canada…
- alephnerd 3y ago
  True! I was just limiting myself to my friend group (most UBC and Waterloo grads, so not the most representative). Also I should have said Software, Electronics, and Healthcare - those STEM fields are more likely to leave for the US.

itsoktocry 3y ago

>It might be possible for a dink tech couple to come here and work in tech for some time and come back to Toronto and buy that way So, come live in a closet in SF for 10 years while you pocket money? How are young people supposed to establish roots?

metalforever 3y ago
I grew up in rural Appalachia in coal country. there’s no generational money. I am not married and don’t split expenses. I taught myself programming and worked my way up, yeah. I sold all of my stuff to get into the property market in the SF Bay Area (I own a SFH with no family help, no rsu buyout and no partner). This is what I’m suggesting, yes. It sucks, I realize it’s unrealistic . I am just telling you how I got it done. I’m greatly sorry about how things in Canada are going. I wish I did not have to make this unrealistic suggestion.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  You did pull yourself from the bootstraps, but you also had the benefit of being a citizen of the US. The economy is large enough in the US that there are plenty of opportunities. The entire economy of Canada is roughly the size of Florida, yet has 2x the population. If you can't find a job or opportunity in Orlando or Tampa, you can always move to Atlanta or Dallas or NYC or Charlotte or Sacramento. Within Canada you don't have a similar option - most jobs are located in a handful of highly expensive cities (Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary), which limits your mobility. There is no city in Canada that has both relatively high wages and relatively low CoL. There is no equivalent of Phoenix or Columbus or Dallas within Canada.
  - metalforever 3y ago
    No I spent years slaving away doing hard programming work during the Great Recession for $15 an hour. Additionally and separately, what you are saying about high paying jobs in a select few cities is true here also. I worked for a company based out of Atlanta and got paid like crap . There isn’t really a lot of tech jobs in the tier 2 cities you are bringing up.

TrackerFF 3y ago

Yes, but...what about nurses? teachers? daycare workers? construction workers? and the list goes on - cities don't run on software engineers, to put it that way.

ChumpGPT 3y ago

I left Toronto Canada 30 plus years ago for a Tech job in the US. I earned more in my first 10 years than I would have earned in my entire working life had I stayed in Canada. Anyone who has the opportunity to land a job in the US would never consider going back to Canada because it just doesn't make sense. If you're making 150K USD or 300k as a couple, a flight back to visit family or friends once a month is trivial.