5 ms·

”identity theft” is the biggest pr win since “jaywalking”. Nothing has been stolen from me, I am still me. Someone claiming to have my credit history took money

”identity theft” is the biggest pr win since “jaywalking”. Nothing has been stolen from me, I am still me. Someone claiming to have my credit history took money from a lender and they believed them.

bombcar 3y ago
And somehow it's your problem.
darth_avocado 3y ago
Identity theft is private companies not doing their jobs. Pretty much no other country has this problem because in order to get credit, you need to prove who you are by providing supporting documentation which is not easy to forge and it is the responsibility of the lender to verify the documentation. And if they don’t, it’s their problem, not yours.
- nottorp 3y ago
  Also, in most other countries the government provides identity verification. In the form of government issued IDs and lately some governments even provide something digital. The US government doesn't provide that.
  - pc86 3y ago
    I'm sorry? Every single state in the US has government-provided identification.
    - nottorp 3y ago
      Why doesn't anyone check it then?
      - alistairSH 3y ago
        Even with RealID, state-issued IDs aren't intended to be general proof of ID. It's pretty weird - they're ok for domestic travel and entering federal facilities, so you'd think they were a good general purpose ID, but they explicitly aren't that.
        landemva 3y ago
        > they're ok for domestic travel No ID is required for domestic travel, even at big airports. Just be pleasant and explain that you misplaced it. I have misplaced ID several times, and only once I signed a piece of paper which roughly said that I am I because I say so.
        NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        Heh heh heh, I take it that you've never been through a Border Patrol checkpoint which wasn't at the border. They checkpoint all the thoroughfares near Mexico and I reminded my Spanish fiancée to carry her passport as we traveled domestically, and I was completely correct.
        landemva 3y ago
        What were you correct about? Non-Americans are in the country by permission, not by right. Americans who consent are on their knees.
        NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        Do you really think CBP is in the business of waving through Hispanic-looking-and-sounding people with no ID for whatever reason? I'm not saying they'd get deported, but I wouldn't be surprised at detention/questioning for a while. Law enforcement usually has ways of checking ID by radio/computer, so it may be a short stop, but still.
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        For now. Though that can has been kicked down the road, the latest drop dead date is May 7, 2025: > On May 7, 2025, U.S. travelers must be REAL ID compliant to board domestic flights and access certain federal facilities. Source: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id https://www.dhs.gov/real-id
    - darth_avocado 3y ago
      And a birth certificate, a passport, a marriage certificate etc. to name a few others.
      - landemva 3y ago
        Marriage license is voluntary. Read your State law about powers of clerk of court (or whoever issues that license in your State). And consider what benefit you get by paying for that license, or if you can stand on your own feet without asking for a permission slip license. Everything you listed is voluntary, at least in USA.
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        > Everything you listed is voluntary, at least in USA. That isn't true: > What Happens If You Don’t Register a Birth? > By law, newborns must be registered within 10 days of their birth. > In terms of legality, not registering the birth of a child is a violation of the law and a punishable crime. Depending on the state, the parents may be fined, charged with imprisonment, or have to face other legal consequences.
        munk-a 3y ago
        Yea, but that's specifically the only one that isn't optional. Almost all other forms of ID are voluntary as long as you understand that voluntary means you accept not participating in some privileged activities (like driving a car on a road for a drivers license). The US is actually insane about how little identification they require from residents and also not great about how expensive it can be to acquire certain forms of ID.
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        Right. But elsewhere in comments, the parent is talking about how you just "obtain a passport, it doesn't need an SSN or home address". I'm curious how one obtains a US passport without a birth certificate or SSN. (But yes, issuance of a passport is "optional").
    - munk-a 3y ago
      None of it is mandatory - there are plenty of people in the US without any government provided identification and it costs money to acquire such an ID. The only one you can't really dodge is a birth certificate.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Not to mention the federal US government provides passports.
xahrepap 3y ago
Right. The fact that they've somehow managed to make me the victim when I wasn't even involved is maddening. The bank/lender/etc is the victim here. But somehow I have to take the fall. Well, next time they should ask me before lending money to "me".
- FFP999 3y ago
  [dead]
- Mordisquitos 3y ago
  > The fact that they've somehow managed to make me the victim when I wasn't even involved is maddening. > The bank/lender/etc is the victim here. Actually you are the victim: you are a victim of the bank/lender/etc and they should be liable to compensate you with punitive damages for your any negative consequences to you. If the bank or lender considers this unfair, let them try to recoup the cost of compensating you by suing the alleged fraudster who they claim "stole your identity" — but not before they compensate you first.
SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
And then the lender sent a statement to a the credit agencies stating that you'd taken money from them (libel), and those agencies believed the libel and re-published it (more libel), causing financial damage to you (inability to borrow money). You are the victim of libel by the banks & credit agencies. They're the victims of fraud by the person(s) they lent the money to. There's no need (other than to protect the banks & credit agencies) to bundle both crimes together, call them "identity theft", and blame it on the individual victim!

bombcar 3y ago

And somehow it's your problem.

darth_avocado 3y ago

Identity theft is private companies not doing their jobs. Pretty much no other country has this problem because in order to get credit, you need to prove who you are by providing supporting documentation which is not easy to forge and it is the responsibility of the lender to verify the documentation. And if they don’t, it’s their problem, not yours.

nottorp 3y ago
Also, in most other countries the government provides identity verification. In the form of government issued IDs and lately some governments even provide something digital. The US government doesn't provide that.
- pc86 3y ago
  I'm sorry? Every single state in the US has government-provided identification.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Why doesn't anyone check it then?
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      Even with RealID, state-issued IDs aren't intended to be general proof of ID. It's pretty weird - they're ok for domestic travel and entering federal facilities, so you'd think they were a good general purpose ID, but they explicitly aren't that.
      - landemva 3y ago
        > they're ok for domestic travel No ID is required for domestic travel, even at big airports. Just be pleasant and explain that you misplaced it. I have misplaced ID several times, and only once I signed a piece of paper which roughly said that I am I because I say so.
        NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        Heh heh heh, I take it that you've never been through a Border Patrol checkpoint which wasn't at the border. They checkpoint all the thoroughfares near Mexico and I reminded my Spanish fiancée to carry her passport as we traveled domestically, and I was completely correct.
        landemva 3y ago
        What were you correct about? Non-Americans are in the country by permission, not by right. Americans who consent are on their knees.
        NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        Do you really think CBP is in the business of waving through Hispanic-looking-and-sounding people with no ID for whatever reason? I'm not saying they'd get deported, but I wouldn't be surprised at detention/questioning for a while. Law enforcement usually has ways of checking ID by radio/computer, so it may be a short stop, but still.
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        For now. Though that can has been kicked down the road, the latest drop dead date is May 7, 2025: > On May 7, 2025, U.S. travelers must be REAL ID compliant to board domestic flights and access certain federal facilities. Source: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id https://www.dhs.gov/real-id
  - darth_avocado 3y ago
    And a birth certificate, a passport, a marriage certificate etc. to name a few others.
    - landemva 3y ago
      Marriage license is voluntary. Read your State law about powers of clerk of court (or whoever issues that license in your State). And consider what benefit you get by paying for that license, or if you can stand on your own feet without asking for a permission slip license. Everything you listed is voluntary, at least in USA.
      - FireBeyond 3y ago
        > Everything you listed is voluntary, at least in USA. That isn't true: > What Happens If You Don’t Register a Birth? > By law, newborns must be registered within 10 days of their birth. > In terms of legality, not registering the birth of a child is a violation of the law and a punishable crime. Depending on the state, the parents may be fined, charged with imprisonment, or have to face other legal consequences.
        munk-a 3y ago
        Yea, but that's specifically the only one that isn't optional. Almost all other forms of ID are voluntary as long as you understand that voluntary means you accept not participating in some privileged activities (like driving a car on a road for a drivers license). The US is actually insane about how little identification they require from residents and also not great about how expensive it can be to acquire certain forms of ID.
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        Right. But elsewhere in comments, the parent is talking about how you just "obtain a passport, it doesn't need an SSN or home address". I'm curious how one obtains a US passport without a birth certificate or SSN. (But yes, issuance of a passport is "optional").
  - munk-a 3y ago
    None of it is mandatory - there are plenty of people in the US without any government provided identification and it costs money to acquire such an ID. The only one you can't really dodge is a birth certificate.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Not to mention the federal US government provides passports.

xahrepap 3y ago

Right. The fact that they've somehow managed to make me the victim when I wasn't even involved is maddening. The bank/lender/etc is the victim here. But somehow I have to take the fall. Well, next time they should ask me before lending money to "me".

FFP999 3y ago
[dead]
Mordisquitos 3y ago
> The fact that they've somehow managed to make me the victim when I wasn't even involved is maddening. > The bank/lender/etc is the victim here. Actually you are the victim: you are a victim of the bank/lender/etc and they should be liable to compensate you with punitive damages for your any negative consequences to you. If the bank or lender considers this unfair, let them try to recoup the cost of compensating you by suing the alleged fraudster who they claim "stole your identity" — but not before they compensate you first.

SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago

And then the lender sent a statement to a the credit agencies stating that you'd taken money from them (libel), and those agencies believed the libel and re-published it (more libel), causing financial damage to you (inability to borrow money). You are the victim of libel by the banks & credit agencies. They're the victims of fraud by the person(s) they lent the money to. There's no need (other than to protect the banks & credit agencies) to bundle both crimes together, call them "identity theft", and blame it on the individual victim!