4 ms·

> I support a domestic ban on TikTok I don’t use any social media, so apologies if this is a dumb question. What is TikTok doing that other ones like YouTube,

> I support a domestic ban on TikTok I don’t use any social media, so apologies if this is a dumb question. What is TikTok doing that other ones like YouTube, Instagram, Facebook isn’t? The only difference I am seeing is that the parent company is China. Misinformation is omnipresent across all those channels too. So on what basis should we ban them?

karaterobot 3y ago
No, you're correct: it being China is the main reason. And it's a sufficient reason for banning it in my mind: cyber warfare is real warfare. It is understood that the government is spying on users of social media (one of several reasons I don't use any either). It's embarrassing for them to admit it, and it undermines any other arguments they could try to make about it, though. If you are claiming a moral high ground, you can't just openly admit you're as bad as the other guy.
- pixelatedindex 3y ago
  How do you spy on users of social media? Are we talking surreptitiously getting access to cameras/microphone or just getting data on user behavior? The former is obviously a major issue, but the latter can be obtained by anyone because tracking for ads is so ubiquitous and China can just pay to get it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - dleeftink 3y ago
    Quite a few ways, whether through device/session fingerprinting [1], in-app browser keystroke tracking [2], frequent third-party post requests [3], individiual app usage patterns [4], geo-tracking [5], dark-patterned user onboarding [6] and continual facial recognition [7]. A canary blog series kicked off by the company itself is worth keeping an eye on to see the 'myths' they want to debunk most scrupously (such as keytracking)[8]. [1]: https://www.nullpt.rs/reverse-engineering-tiktok-vm-1 https://www.nullpt.rs/reverse-engineering-tiktok-vm-1 [2]: https://krausefx.com/blog/announcing-inappbrowsercom-see-what-javascript-commands-get-executed-in-an-in-app-browser https://krausefx.com/blog/announcing-inappbrowsercom-see-wha... [3]: https://app.urlgeni.us/blog/new-research-across-200-ios-apps-hints-surveillance-marketing-may-still-be-going-strong https://app.urlgeni.us/blog/new-research-across-200-ios-apps... [4]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/05/business/media/tiktok-algorithm.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/05/business/media/tiktok-alg... [5]: https://www.afr.com/technology/tiktok-admits-collecting-location-data-20230309-p5cqo8 https://www.afr.com/technology/tiktok-admits-collecting-loca... [6]: https://au.reset.tech/uploads/resettechaustralia_policymemo_tiktok_final_online.pdf https://au.reset.tech/uploads/resettechaustralia_policymemo_... [7]: https://www.npr.org/2021/02/25/971460327/tiktok-to-pay-92-million-to-settle-class-action-suit-over-theft-of-personal-data https://www.npr.org/2021/02/25/971460327/tiktok-to-pay-92-mi... [8]: https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/tiktok-truths-a-new-series-on-our-privacy-and-data-security-practices https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/tiktok-truths-a-new-series...
    - pixelatedindex 3y ago
      Thank you, this is insightful.
Dig1t 3y ago
A: Funneling data from its users directly to the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). Corps in China have a special relationship with the government, unlike the US. A CCP party member accompanies the CEO and is present for major decisions. Often, company policies are dictated by the government and handed down by the party member assigned to the company. The CCP has access to the data that companies collect, which includes all the data generated by American citizens. This does not only include the video content, but location information and any other kinds of device fingerprinting they can come up with. B: TikTok has different algorithms for different countries, the algorithm in China is tuned to show young people science, technology, and inspirational content, which was dictated by the CCP. The US algorithm shows young people anything that will keep them "engaged", which usually includes ragebait and all kinds of unhealthy things.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  US "ex-"spooks are overwhelmingly dominant at all US social media companies.
  - Dig1t 3y ago
    I'm assuming you mean like "ex-FBI" or "ex-CIA". You're totally right and that is a huge problem as well. But I would say a slightly different one.

karaterobot 3y ago

No, you're correct: it being China is the main reason. And it's a sufficient reason for banning it in my mind: cyber warfare is real warfare. It is understood that the government is spying on users of social media (one of several reasons I don't use any either). It's embarrassing for them to admit it, and it undermines any other arguments they could try to make about it, though. If you are claiming a moral high ground, you can't just openly admit you're as bad as the other guy.

pixelatedindex 3y ago
How do you spy on users of social media? Are we talking surreptitiously getting access to cameras/microphone or just getting data on user behavior? The former is obviously a major issue, but the latter can be obtained by anyone because tracking for ads is so ubiquitous and China can just pay to get it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dleeftink 3y ago
  Quite a few ways, whether through device/session fingerprinting [1], in-app browser keystroke tracking [2], frequent third-party post requests [3], individiual app usage patterns [4], geo-tracking [5], dark-patterned user onboarding [6] and continual facial recognition [7]. A canary blog series kicked off by the company itself is worth keeping an eye on to see the 'myths' they want to debunk most scrupously (such as keytracking)[8]. [1]: https://www.nullpt.rs/reverse-engineering-tiktok-vm-1 https://www.nullpt.rs/reverse-engineering-tiktok-vm-1 [2]: https://krausefx.com/blog/announcing-inappbrowsercom-see-what-javascript-commands-get-executed-in-an-in-app-browser https://krausefx.com/blog/announcing-inappbrowsercom-see-wha... [3]: https://app.urlgeni.us/blog/new-research-across-200-ios-apps-hints-surveillance-marketing-may-still-be-going-strong https://app.urlgeni.us/blog/new-research-across-200-ios-apps... [4]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/05/business/media/tiktok-algorithm.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/05/business/media/tiktok-alg... [5]: https://www.afr.com/technology/tiktok-admits-collecting-location-data-20230309-p5cqo8 https://www.afr.com/technology/tiktok-admits-collecting-loca... [6]: https://au.reset.tech/uploads/resettechaustralia_policymemo_tiktok_final_online.pdf https://au.reset.tech/uploads/resettechaustralia_policymemo_... [7]: https://www.npr.org/2021/02/25/971460327/tiktok-to-pay-92-million-to-settle-class-action-suit-over-theft-of-personal-data https://www.npr.org/2021/02/25/971460327/tiktok-to-pay-92-mi... [8]: https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/tiktok-truths-a-new-series-on-our-privacy-and-data-security-practices https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/tiktok-truths-a-new-series...
  - pixelatedindex 3y ago
    Thank you, this is insightful.

Dig1t 3y ago

A: Funneling data from its users directly to the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). Corps in China have a special relationship with the government, unlike the US. A CCP party member accompanies the CEO and is present for major decisions. Often, company policies are dictated by the government and handed down by the party member assigned to the company. The CCP has access to the data that companies collect, which includes all the data generated by American citizens. This does not only include the video content, but location information and any other kinds of device fingerprinting they can come up with. B: TikTok has different algorithms for different countries, the algorithm in China is tuned to show young people science, technology, and inspirational content, which was dictated by the CCP. The US algorithm shows young people anything that will keep them "engaged", which usually includes ragebait and all kinds of unhealthy things.

pessimizer 3y ago
US "ex-"spooks are overwhelmingly dominant at all US social media companies.
- Dig1t 3y ago
  I'm assuming you mean like "ex-FBI" or "ex-CIA". You're totally right and that is a huge problem as well. But I would say a slightly different one.