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Home address and phone number?!?! The horror! (Did people forget yellow pages existed?) I suppose email and SSN are yikes inducing but after a decade of havin

Home address and phone number?!?! The horror! (Did people forget yellow pages existed?) I suppose email and SSN are yikes inducing but after a decade of having my email sold to the political parties, I don't treasure it. SSN? Haven't we moved beyond SSN for security purposes?

bArray 3y ago
I think that given all of this information, they could run a very convincing scam either against you, or a service you interact with. From what I can tell, SSN is still somehow considered a form of identification in the US. Edit: Commented too early.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  As much as WFH is a thing forever, whenever I do high stakes things, they require me to come in + show my drivers license. Seems like there are basically no exceptions when it comes to banking.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    How might someone acquire a drivers license with your name on it? Having your SSN helps a lot!
  - landemva 3y ago
    > basically no exceptions when it comes to banking. That depends on your megabank. KYC and what staff will do over the phone is about relationships. I get things done over the phone at local credit unions and even mid-size regional banks. Banking and identity regulations allow a lot to happen, and your personal relationships make a difference. The back offices of mega-banks generally prevent personal service. Choose a different banker.
karaterobot 3y ago
Are you willing to provide your address and phone number in this thread, then? My guess is "no", but why not? Might other people not want their home address and phone number made public?
- ehnto 3y ago
  When this discussion comes up, I think some people forget the context is online fraud. The attacker likely has other information on you, so a lookup service that helps them stitch it together with your real name and number is not good. The yellow pages is not a lookup service like that, it can't connect you from other information to a name and phone number, so having a book of names unlinked to the data you have gets you nowhere.
  - karaterobot 3y ago
    People also forget (or may not know, since they post-date the use of print telephone directories) that you could opt out of being in the Yellow Pages. You can't do that with credit headers, or even, practically speaking, with credit cards.
    - pessimizer 3y ago
      They also forget that it was the White Pages for personal listings, and the Yellow Pages for business listings.
      - karaterobot 3y ago
        Fair point!
    - landemva 3y ago
      > or even, practically speaking, with credit cards. Yes you can opt out even with credit cards, and you can also do it for minor children in 5 easy steps: 1 clone your trust document 2 IRS.com and get TIN for trust 3 open trust savings account at bank 4 put funds in account 5 get the bank's 'secured credit card' offer in which they lock the funds If you quibble that a secured credit card is not a real credit card, then just get the debit card.
ballenf 3y ago
Every address you've lived at... frequently this plus a SSN is all you need to completely take over someone's identity.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lexlash 3y ago
There are other services which rely on this header’s information for authentication (which of these addresses did you live at in 2021?) so for approximately $15, you can dramatically increase the effectiveness of an attack on those services. Unlisted numbers have been a white pages paid feature for a very long time. Very similar incentives in both directions compared to these headers, I’m sure. (Yellow pages were pay for inclusion, iirc.)
OJFord 3y ago
The criticism here should be that the starting point is 'name & state' (wouldn't 'doxing' normally be determining name/identity or more from believed-anonymous online interactions?) but otherwise yes whatever you think of how important it is that is doxing? But it's more than you cherry-picked anyway: > The file included the names and birth years of their relatives. It listed the target’s mobile phone numbers and provider, as well as personal email addresses. Finally, the file contained information from their drivers’ license, including its unique identification number. Plus 'sometimes' Social Security Number as you said.
msla 3y ago
> SSN? Haven't we moved beyond SSN for security purposes? No, the banks haven't, which means you haven't, bucko.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  Honestly, the shortest solution to these problems would be to reshape the law so that banks are 100% responsible for fraud. As in, if they open an account tied to somebody and it turns out to be tied to somebody else? 100% on them, the person who they were deceived into believing they were doing business with is fully protected by the law from any ramifications. Of course, this would completely change the risk model banks operate under and fundamentally reshape commerce as we know it. Thanks would become hypersensitive, all business would be conducted in person, banks would reserve the right to tie up your money for years if you couldn't prove who you were (think getting your Google account unlocked when Google suspects fraud, except now it's your money in the bank down the street...).
- landemva 3y ago
  You haven't moved on because of your parents. SSN is voluntary. If parents would stop opting-in their babies into this data scheme, Americans could grow up without these numbers. After ominous threats about 'must choose name for baby' my wife and I left the hospital with our baby. Health insurer sent new member card with name 'baby girl' which worked great for all the follow-ups. And nobody from big government forced me to apply for SSN. We did get a passport (SSN on that application is optional) and travelled internationally before the first birthday. Most of this nonsense data collection is voluntary. More and more in life I say "No thank you" and move on. Many Americans get a warm blanket feeling by putting their children into voluntary data schemes.
  - msla 3y ago
    The only thing you are achieving is to add extra paperwork and hassle to your daughter's future when she later has a job or opens a bank account.
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    The only thing you are achieving is to add extra paperwork and hassle to your daughter's future when she later has a job or opens a bank account.
pessimizer 3y ago
> Home address and phone number?!?! The horror! (Did people forget yellow pages existed?) Are you absolutely sure that people who had real concerns about their privacy and safety allowed their phone number and address to be published in the book? Also, it was the White Pages, btw.

bArray 3y ago

I think that given all of this information, they could run a very convincing scam either against you, or a service you interact with. From what I can tell, SSN is still somehow considered a form of identification in the US. Edit: Commented too early.

hospitalJail 3y ago
As much as WFH is a thing forever, whenever I do high stakes things, they require me to come in + show my drivers license. Seems like there are basically no exceptions when it comes to banking.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  How might someone acquire a drivers license with your name on it? Having your SSN helps a lot!
- landemva 3y ago
  > basically no exceptions when it comes to banking. That depends on your megabank. KYC and what staff will do over the phone is about relationships. I get things done over the phone at local credit unions and even mid-size regional banks. Banking and identity regulations allow a lot to happen, and your personal relationships make a difference. The back offices of mega-banks generally prevent personal service. Choose a different banker.

karaterobot 3y ago

Are you willing to provide your address and phone number in this thread, then? My guess is "no", but why not? Might other people not want their home address and phone number made public?

ehnto 3y ago
When this discussion comes up, I think some people forget the context is online fraud. The attacker likely has other information on you, so a lookup service that helps them stitch it together with your real name and number is not good. The yellow pages is not a lookup service like that, it can't connect you from other information to a name and phone number, so having a book of names unlinked to the data you have gets you nowhere.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  People also forget (or may not know, since they post-date the use of print telephone directories) that you could opt out of being in the Yellow Pages. You can't do that with credit headers, or even, practically speaking, with credit cards.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    They also forget that it was the White Pages for personal listings, and the Yellow Pages for business listings.
    - karaterobot 3y ago
      Fair point!
  - landemva 3y ago
    > or even, practically speaking, with credit cards. Yes you can opt out even with credit cards, and you can also do it for minor children in 5 easy steps: 1 clone your trust document 2 IRS.com and get TIN for trust 3 open trust savings account at bank 4 put funds in account 5 get the bank's 'secured credit card' offer in which they lock the funds If you quibble that a secured credit card is not a real credit card, then just get the debit card.

ballenf 3y ago

Every address you've lived at... frequently this plus a SSN is all you need to completely take over someone's identity.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

lexlash 3y ago

There are other services which rely on this header’s information for authentication (which of these addresses did you live at in 2021?) so for approximately $15, you can dramatically increase the effectiveness of an attack on those services. Unlisted numbers have been a white pages paid feature for a very long time. Very similar incentives in both directions compared to these headers, I’m sure. (Yellow pages were pay for inclusion, iirc.)

OJFord 3y ago

The criticism here should be that the starting point is 'name & state' (wouldn't 'doxing' normally be determining name/identity or more from believed-anonymous online interactions?) but otherwise yes whatever you think of how important it is that is doxing? But it's more than you cherry-picked anyway: > The file included the names and birth years of their relatives. It listed the target’s mobile phone numbers and provider, as well as personal email addresses. Finally, the file contained information from their drivers’ license, including its unique identification number. Plus 'sometimes' Social Security Number as you said.

msla 3y ago

> SSN? Haven't we moved beyond SSN for security purposes? No, the banks haven't, which means you haven't, bucko.

shadowgovt 3y ago
Honestly, the shortest solution to these problems would be to reshape the law so that banks are 100% responsible for fraud. As in, if they open an account tied to somebody and it turns out to be tied to somebody else? 100% on them, the person who they were deceived into believing they were doing business with is fully protected by the law from any ramifications. Of course, this would completely change the risk model banks operate under and fundamentally reshape commerce as we know it. Thanks would become hypersensitive, all business would be conducted in person, banks would reserve the right to tie up your money for years if you couldn't prove who you were (think getting your Google account unlocked when Google suspects fraud, except now it's your money in the bank down the street...).
landemva 3y ago
You haven't moved on because of your parents. SSN is voluntary. If parents would stop opting-in their babies into this data scheme, Americans could grow up without these numbers. After ominous threats about 'must choose name for baby' my wife and I left the hospital with our baby. Health insurer sent new member card with name 'baby girl' which worked great for all the follow-ups. And nobody from big government forced me to apply for SSN. We did get a passport (SSN on that application is optional) and travelled internationally before the first birthday. Most of this nonsense data collection is voluntary. More and more in life I say "No thank you" and move on. Many Americans get a warm blanket feeling by putting their children into voluntary data schemes.
- msla 3y ago
  The only thing you are achieving is to add extra paperwork and hassle to your daughter's future when she later has a job or opens a bank account.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  The only thing you are achieving is to add extra paperwork and hassle to your daughter's future when she later has a job or opens a bank account.

pessimizer 3y ago

> Home address and phone number?!?! The horror! (Did people forget yellow pages existed?) Are you absolutely sure that people who had real concerns about their privacy and safety allowed their phone number and address to be published in the book? Also, it was the White Pages, btw.