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That's good. But also a bit misleading. Pumping heat into the atmosphere isn't really at the heart of climate change - adding insulation to the atmosphere is.

That's good. But also a bit misleading. Pumping heat into the atmosphere isn't really at the heart of climate change - adding insulation to the atmosphere is. It probably isn't great to pump heat into it either, but the mechanisms for radiative loss of that extra heat are (were) pretty good, and it would take a gigantic amount of heat (more than we've produced by burning fossil fuels) to shift the energy level in the atmosphere by much over longer time frames. However, effectively adding another blanket to the atmosphere is far more impactful. Last credible estimate I saw was the atmosphere now contains about an extra 8 peta-watts compared to pre-industrial times, and almost all of that comes from a reduction in "radiative forcing" (loss of heat to space, essentially) rather than additional heat generation.

SoftTalker 3y ago
Yes, the amount of heat added to the atmosphere by human activities is negligible compared to what we receive every day from the sun. It's the heat that is retained that is the problem.
pjc50 3y ago
This is true, but it's also explaining a joke. The real point is that patio heaters are necessarily very inefficient because they're operating in an uninsulated space that's open to the elements - almost all the heat will be immediately lost to the atmosphere. Heat lamps are better, but really patio heaters are used by people trying to cosplay an outdoor culture at a latitude or season that doesn't support it, and they should put some warmer clothes on or go inside.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  Your final observation might be true of parts of the USA. But go to Berlin in winter, or anywhere in northern Europe really, where "it's cold" and "being outside" are not considered oppositional. Take a winter walk down a Berlin street with outdoor restaurant seating, and see people sitting under blankets, with warm coats on, and hats ... enjoying dinner ... and patio heaters. They are not cosplaying at anything. It's just how it is.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Patio heaters (at least the gas-powered kind) are prohibited in most German cities. Berlin has only temporarily allowed during Covid, as far as I know. > It's just how it is. It's a fairly new trend, and as mentioned above, one that's probably already over. Germany has had outdoor Christmas markets for much longer than patio heaters have existed.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      I lived in Berlin in 2008/2009. They must have been banned since then, because they were very common at that time. And yes, the christmas market version of being outside is obviously much older, but in my experience (also, Heidelberg in 1986) was less sitting around and more moving around outside (or in heated tents).

SoftTalker 3y ago

Yes, the amount of heat added to the atmosphere by human activities is negligible compared to what we receive every day from the sun. It's the heat that is retained that is the problem.

pjc50 3y ago

This is true, but it's also explaining a joke. The real point is that patio heaters are necessarily very inefficient because they're operating in an uninsulated space that's open to the elements - almost all the heat will be immediately lost to the atmosphere. Heat lamps are better, but really patio heaters are used by people trying to cosplay an outdoor culture at a latitude or season that doesn't support it, and they should put some warmer clothes on or go inside.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
Your final observation might be true of parts of the USA. But go to Berlin in winter, or anywhere in northern Europe really, where "it's cold" and "being outside" are not considered oppositional. Take a winter walk down a Berlin street with outdoor restaurant seating, and see people sitting under blankets, with warm coats on, and hats ... enjoying dinner ... and patio heaters. They are not cosplaying at anything. It's just how it is.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Patio heaters (at least the gas-powered kind) are prohibited in most German cities. Berlin has only temporarily allowed during Covid, as far as I know. > It's just how it is. It's a fairly new trend, and as mentioned above, one that's probably already over. Germany has had outdoor Christmas markets for much longer than patio heaters have existed.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    I lived in Berlin in 2008/2009. They must have been banned since then, because they were very common at that time. And yes, the christmas market version of being outside is obviously much older, but in my experience (also, Heidelberg in 1986) was less sitting around and more moving around outside (or in heated tents).