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that's interesting, i see the opposite. python is so easy to script that imo excel is nailing its own coffin. with an aging and retiring demographic of people

that's interesting, i see the opposite. python is so easy to script that imo excel is nailing its own coffin. with an aging and retiring demographic of people that have never used a programming language, anyone who learns to incorporate python into excel will end up preferring python because its both more flexible and scalable. i have no reason to use excel except for basic drawing board math, if someone demands a spreadsheet out me i automate its generation in python so i never have to deal with it again

nologic01 3y ago
I see spreedsheets more as an UI. An extremely intuitive (and reactive!) way of spatially decomposing computation. Yes, this creates lots of problems (you can not easily validate it etc.) but it is also very enabling. For sure more people are now exposed to programming, but how many are actually comfortable doing even simple stuff directly using code is a question mark. A jupyter notebook is maybe somewhere in between. But even if other interfaces manage to bridge the gap further, I doubt the spreadsheet metaphor is going to go away in the visible future. Pivot tables and the like are like COBOL and mainframes :-) The corporate world would die a sudden death if you were to eliminate it (another reason to always make sure you can run things locally).
Sakos 3y ago
> with an aging and retiring demographic of people that have never used a programming language This simply isn't true in any way and is completely divorced from modern businesses. Everybody I know who works in an office setting works with Excel. None of them know Python and none of them have touched a programming language. Almost all of them are younger than 30. And if anybody who's 20 starts at one of these companies, they'd better know Excel because that's what the business is built on. Not like that 20 year old is gonna know anything about programming either. 99% of people just aren't programmers and aren't going to learn programming when they just want to futz around with some numbers and the easiest (yet also the most powerful) tool they know for it is a spreadsheet. If somebody in any business, anywhere, at any point wants to do something with numbers, they're going to use Excel.
pessimizer 3y ago
Not a chance. There's nothing scary about VBA (except its inflexibility and lack of a lot of modern features), and people aren't learning that either. Of course, the last decade of vaguely threatening to remove it from Office completely (in favor of js and now python?) hasn't helped people think VBA would be a good investment of their time to learn. A required internet connection and having Python only work on Windows doesn't make it look like much better of an investment. Also, imo, Python and whatever random environments and libraries that you'll have to use with it to get your work done, will be in almost every way worse than just using VBA. And if you use VBA, your work will be effortlessly portable. The only problem I have with it is that I have to come up with ways to get the code out of the embedded IDE into source control, but there are scripts that help. > i have no reason to use excel except for basic drawing board math, if someone demands a spreadsheet out me i automate its generation in python so i never have to deal with it again I, on the other hand, do it in VBA, and expose every important calculation within clearly labeled spreadsheets so programming-illiterate people can audit them and feel confident about the output.
ARandumGuy 3y ago
This comment seems out of touch with why people use Excel. The fact is, Excel is popular because it manages to be pretty easy to use, while also being extraordinarily powerful and flexible. For most users, they'll ask "why would I program something in Python when Excel has a built in function to handle that?"
chasd00 3y ago
> i have no reason to use excel except for basic drawing board math I think you underestimate the amount of work, globally, done in Excel. If Excel vanished it would be a business/economic extinction level event, It's not going anywhere.

nologic01 3y ago

I see spreedsheets more as an UI. An extremely intuitive (and reactive!) way of spatially decomposing computation. Yes, this creates lots of problems (you can not easily validate it etc.) but it is also very enabling. For sure more people are now exposed to programming, but how many are actually comfortable doing even simple stuff directly using code is a question mark. A jupyter notebook is maybe somewhere in between. But even if other interfaces manage to bridge the gap further, I doubt the spreadsheet metaphor is going to go away in the visible future. Pivot tables and the like are like COBOL and mainframes :-) The corporate world would die a sudden death if you were to eliminate it (another reason to always make sure you can run things locally).

Sakos 3y ago

> with an aging and retiring demographic of people that have never used a programming language This simply isn't true in any way and is completely divorced from modern businesses. Everybody I know who works in an office setting works with Excel. None of them know Python and none of them have touched a programming language. Almost all of them are younger than 30. And if anybody who's 20 starts at one of these companies, they'd better know Excel because that's what the business is built on. Not like that 20 year old is gonna know anything about programming either. 99% of people just aren't programmers and aren't going to learn programming when they just want to futz around with some numbers and the easiest (yet also the most powerful) tool they know for it is a spreadsheet. If somebody in any business, anywhere, at any point wants to do something with numbers, they're going to use Excel.

pessimizer 3y ago

Not a chance. There's nothing scary about VBA (except its inflexibility and lack of a lot of modern features), and people aren't learning that either. Of course, the last decade of vaguely threatening to remove it from Office completely (in favor of js and now python?) hasn't helped people think VBA would be a good investment of their time to learn. A required internet connection and having Python only work on Windows doesn't make it look like much better of an investment. Also, imo, Python and whatever random environments and libraries that you'll have to use with it to get your work done, will be in almost every way worse than just using VBA. And if you use VBA, your work will be effortlessly portable. The only problem I have with it is that I have to come up with ways to get the code out of the embedded IDE into source control, but there are scripts that help. > i have no reason to use excel except for basic drawing board math, if someone demands a spreadsheet out me i automate its generation in python so i never have to deal with it again I, on the other hand, do it in VBA, and expose every important calculation within clearly labeled spreadsheets so programming-illiterate people can audit them and feel confident about the output.

ARandumGuy 3y ago

This comment seems out of touch with why people use Excel. The fact is, Excel is popular because it manages to be pretty easy to use, while also being extraordinarily powerful and flexible. For most users, they'll ask "why would I program something in Python when Excel has a built in function to handle that?"

chasd00 3y ago

> i have no reason to use excel except for basic drawing board math I think you underestimate the amount of work, globally, done in Excel. If Excel vanished it would be a business/economic extinction level event, It's not going anywhere.