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If a company wants to rank engineers then there is always a metric to rank engineers. That metric may simply be how much the manager or director likes each engi

If a company wants to rank engineers then there is always a metric to rank engineers. That metric may simply be how much the manager or director likes each engineer. That's still a metric and it still can be gamed (ie: classic kiss ass culture).

nine_zeros 3y ago
Any ranking system produces undesired, pathological behaviors in the company. Then, a large amount of management needs to be hired to contain the pathological behaviors created by management in the first place. But hey, its not my company. If they want employees to spend time on BS, I'll play along as long as I keep getting my money. I don't care for the product, services or the company at that point.
- marcinzm 3y ago
  Not having a ranking/promotion/PIP system also eventually creates pathological behaviors in the company baring temporary situations of near infinite revenue unrelated to what employees do.
  - nine_zeros 3y ago
    A promotion system is important? Yes But ranking and PIP? I assure you you are not incentivizing collaboration. You can try to force collaboration but most employees will do just enough because it is in their best interest if someone else fails. If there were a system design interview where you had to design a system in which employees throw others under the bus - but subtly - what would you design?
    - marcinzm 3y ago
      >PIP Have you ever talked to an engineer that was forced to work with someone on their team who providing negative value? That doesn't drive collaboration, that drives low morale and eventually people moving on. If you need to identify low performers then you now have an metric explicit or implicit that identifies them.
      - nine_zeros 3y ago
        > Have you ever talked to an engineer that was forced to work with someone on their team who providing negative value? That doesn't drive collaboration, that drives low morale and eventually people moving on. If you need to identify low performers then you now have an metric explicit or implicit that identifies them. Have you ever worked on a team where people are yanked every 6 months systematically? No one on such teams wants to collaborate. It is in an individual's best interest to let others sink. Product, services, outcomes be damned.

nine_zeros 3y ago

Any ranking system produces undesired, pathological behaviors in the company. Then, a large amount of management needs to be hired to contain the pathological behaviors created by management in the first place. But hey, its not my company. If they want employees to spend time on BS, I'll play along as long as I keep getting my money. I don't care for the product, services or the company at that point.

marcinzm 3y ago
Not having a ranking/promotion/PIP system also eventually creates pathological behaviors in the company baring temporary situations of near infinite revenue unrelated to what employees do.
- nine_zeros 3y ago
  A promotion system is important? Yes But ranking and PIP? I assure you you are not incentivizing collaboration. You can try to force collaboration but most employees will do just enough because it is in their best interest if someone else fails. If there were a system design interview where you had to design a system in which employees throw others under the bus - but subtly - what would you design?
  - marcinzm 3y ago
    >PIP Have you ever talked to an engineer that was forced to work with someone on their team who providing negative value? That doesn't drive collaboration, that drives low morale and eventually people moving on. If you need to identify low performers then you now have an metric explicit or implicit that identifies them.
    - nine_zeros 3y ago
      > Have you ever talked to an engineer that was forced to work with someone on their team who providing negative value? That doesn't drive collaboration, that drives low morale and eventually people moving on. If you need to identify low performers then you now have an metric explicit or implicit that identifies them. Have you ever worked on a team where people are yanked every 6 months systematically? No one on such teams wants to collaborate. It is in an individual's best interest to let others sink. Product, services, outcomes be damned.