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And as a FB employee gets private healthcare as a perk and would also get it in the US. The US comp is much higher than the UK's even taking into account health

by dom96 3y ago

And as a FB employee gets private healthcare as a perk and would also get it in the US. The US comp is much higher than the UK's even taking into account healthcare.

Tijdreiziger 3y ago
And what about long-term illness? If he fell ill for 1+ year, would his salary and healthcare be guaranteed or would he go bankrupt?
- tchaffee 3y ago
  That's is indeed where the US system fails. Overall though I think the risk reward ratio favors the US for young healthy engineers. Save up enough to retire at 45 and then get yourself to a country with good nationalized healthcare.
- DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
  All US employers I've worked for included disability and long-term injury insurance as standard benefits, in addition to always offering the best-tier health-plans (from non-profit insurers too). Unemployment insurance is another (legally mandatory) benefit that outshines whatever I'd get in the UK because it isn't considered a public-benefit (i.e. it's not the state or Feds paying it ("welfare" as yanks call it), it's still a insurance pool model where the payouts are proportional to your salary and not some arbitrary income limit the DWP set for the year, nor is means-tested or requires me to use-up my savings first - so in WA ( https://esd.wa.gov/unemployment/calculate-your-benefit https://esd.wa.gov/unemployment/calculate-your-benefit ) I'd be getting about $4k/mo for 6 months, for comparison I quickly ran the numbers on benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk (there's no official UK calculator, wat) just now and got... £300/mo - and that's only after I exhaust all my savings first. (To be fair, I could just purchase private unemployment insurance in the UK too, except I'd be paying for it myself out-of-pocket (though it might be a tax-deductible expense?) whereas in WA employers are required to pay into it at no cost to the employee, IIRC).
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    > long-term injury insurance It eventually runs out. The US healthcare system can eventually bankrupt you no matter how careful you are, if your health problems are serious enough.
- sgerenser 3y ago
  I don’t know about Facebook, but at other BigTechs we were offered very affordable short and long term disability plans. And if your income is low enough (e.g. laid off or fired), you qualify for ACA health plans with huge subsidies making it almost free.
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    > long term disability plans It eventually runs out. Medical bankruptcy is pretty widespread in the US.
- jkaplowitz 3y ago
  Facebook very probably has a group long-term disability insurance policy which adequately its employees in that case. Google did when I worked there many years ago. Some supports might also come from Social Security Disability Insurance, Medicare, and loans or withdrawals from retirement accounts that are far better funded at Facebook US than at Facebook UK.
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    > long-term disability insurance policy It eventually runs out. Medical bankruptcy is pretty widespread in the US.
    - jkaplowitz 3y ago
      It eventually runs out, yes, but the good long-term disability policies last until retirement age, when social security retirement benefits kick in. You may be confusing it with a short-term disability policy, which is more common, or with mediocre long-term policies. Medical bankruptcy is indeed pretty widespread in the US, but not among people with Facebook or Google benefits, not even those with career-ending disabilities. You’re underestimating the inequality of benefits within the US. Not a permanent work stoppage example, but here is one relevant anecdote: I have personal knowledge of someone who got severely crippled by a freak accident that would have made most Americans go bankrupt and never be able to work again, including a need for repeated brain surgery. His FAANG employer benefits paid for what he needed, and although he was permanently wheelchair bound, he was eventually even able to return to work part-time (of course not initially) because of how good their benefits are.
      - tchaffee 3y ago
        > Medical bankruptcy is indeed pretty widespread in the US, but not among people with Facebook or Google benefits. That's interesting. What's your data source showing this outcome?
        jkaplowitz 3y ago
bemusedthrow75 3y ago
But once he/she has a family (or just a pregnant partner) he/she is really handcuffed to the job by that perk, no? The risk of losing that cover makes it very difficult to make sensible life choices.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  Is your claim that a Facebook engineer would have trouble finding a different job with high compensation and great healthcare? That's a bold and hard to believe claim.
  - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
    This comes across as quite rude, TBH. But answering you on the merits: it’s entirely possible, yes. For example, what if sensible life choices include moving out of state to a place where there is less tech industry? Just changing jobs can interrupt healthcare and cause costs. And the process of switching providers is, in the experience of a friend with a family with complex healthcare needs, sometimes so kafkaesque it might not be worth the risk. What if sensible life choices involve blowing the whistle or just being critical of the industry? Can you risk it? What if sensible life choices mean wanting to substitute time so your partner can go back to work? Does their plan match yours for the benefits you’ve both come to rely on? It’s not unusual at all for people in all sorts of situations and on all sorts of incomes to effectively end up tied to a job by the security of specific features of a workplace health plan. Use your imagination before you just jump in and belittle an argument. I do wonder if people in the particular FAANG bubbles are just too young and healthy to understand that healthcare plans aren’t just a tradeable, interchangeable perk: once you are really deeply using them, they can get a lot less interchangeable.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      I have been buying health insurance that uses Blue Cross Blue Shield’s network in the US, and in 4 different states with 4 different health insurance companies on east and west coast it did not seem to make any difference. I have bought them on healthcare.gov, and I have received them from employer, and it all seems to be interchangeable from my experience over the last 10+ years.

by dom96 3y ago

And as a FB employee gets private healthcare as a perk and would also get it in the US. The US comp is much higher than the UK's even taking into account healthcare.

Tijdreiziger 3y ago

And what about long-term illness? If he fell ill for 1+ year, would his salary and healthcare be guaranteed or would he go bankrupt?

tchaffee 3y ago
That's is indeed where the US system fails. Overall though I think the risk reward ratio favors the US for young healthy engineers. Save up enough to retire at 45 and then get yourself to a country with good nationalized healthcare.
DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
All US employers I've worked for included disability and long-term injury insurance as standard benefits, in addition to always offering the best-tier health-plans (from non-profit insurers too). Unemployment insurance is another (legally mandatory) benefit that outshines whatever I'd get in the UK because it isn't considered a public-benefit (i.e. it's not the state or Feds paying it ("welfare" as yanks call it), it's still a insurance pool model where the payouts are proportional to your salary and not some arbitrary income limit the DWP set for the year, nor is means-tested or requires me to use-up my savings first - so in WA ( https://esd.wa.gov/unemployment/calculate-your-benefit https://esd.wa.gov/unemployment/calculate-your-benefit ) I'd be getting about $4k/mo for 6 months, for comparison I quickly ran the numbers on benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk (there's no official UK calculator, wat) just now and got... £300/mo - and that's only after I exhaust all my savings first. (To be fair, I could just purchase private unemployment insurance in the UK too, except I'd be paying for it myself out-of-pocket (though it might be a tax-deductible expense?) whereas in WA employers are required to pay into it at no cost to the employee, IIRC).
- tchaffee 3y ago
  > long-term injury insurance It eventually runs out. The US healthcare system can eventually bankrupt you no matter how careful you are, if your health problems are serious enough.
sgerenser 3y ago
I don’t know about Facebook, but at other BigTechs we were offered very affordable short and long term disability plans. And if your income is low enough (e.g. laid off or fired), you qualify for ACA health plans with huge subsidies making it almost free.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  > long term disability plans It eventually runs out. Medical bankruptcy is pretty widespread in the US.
jkaplowitz 3y ago
Facebook very probably has a group long-term disability insurance policy which adequately its employees in that case. Google did when I worked there many years ago. Some supports might also come from Social Security Disability Insurance, Medicare, and loans or withdrawals from retirement accounts that are far better funded at Facebook US than at Facebook UK.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  > long-term disability insurance policy It eventually runs out. Medical bankruptcy is pretty widespread in the US.
  - jkaplowitz 3y ago
    It eventually runs out, yes, but the good long-term disability policies last until retirement age, when social security retirement benefits kick in. You may be confusing it with a short-term disability policy, which is more common, or with mediocre long-term policies. Medical bankruptcy is indeed pretty widespread in the US, but not among people with Facebook or Google benefits, not even those with career-ending disabilities. You’re underestimating the inequality of benefits within the US. Not a permanent work stoppage example, but here is one relevant anecdote: I have personal knowledge of someone who got severely crippled by a freak accident that would have made most Americans go bankrupt and never be able to work again, including a need for repeated brain surgery. His FAANG employer benefits paid for what he needed, and although he was permanently wheelchair bound, he was eventually even able to return to work part-time (of course not initially) because of how good their benefits are.
    - tchaffee 3y ago
      > Medical bankruptcy is indeed pretty widespread in the US, but not among people with Facebook or Google benefits. That's interesting. What's your data source showing this outcome?
      - jkaplowitz 3y ago

bemusedthrow75 3y ago

But once he/she has a family (or just a pregnant partner) he/she is really handcuffed to the job by that perk, no? The risk of losing that cover makes it very difficult to make sensible life choices.

tchaffee 3y ago
Is your claim that a Facebook engineer would have trouble finding a different job with high compensation and great healthcare? That's a bold and hard to believe claim.
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  This comes across as quite rude, TBH. But answering you on the merits: it’s entirely possible, yes. For example, what if sensible life choices include moving out of state to a place where there is less tech industry? Just changing jobs can interrupt healthcare and cause costs. And the process of switching providers is, in the experience of a friend with a family with complex healthcare needs, sometimes so kafkaesque it might not be worth the risk. What if sensible life choices involve blowing the whistle or just being critical of the industry? Can you risk it? What if sensible life choices mean wanting to substitute time so your partner can go back to work? Does their plan match yours for the benefits you’ve both come to rely on? It’s not unusual at all for people in all sorts of situations and on all sorts of incomes to effectively end up tied to a job by the security of specific features of a workplace health plan. Use your imagination before you just jump in and belittle an argument. I do wonder if people in the particular FAANG bubbles are just too young and healthy to understand that healthcare plans aren’t just a tradeable, interchangeable perk: once you are really deeply using them, they can get a lot less interchangeable.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    I have been buying health insurance that uses Blue Cross Blue Shield’s network in the US, and in 4 different states with 4 different health insurance companies on east and west coast it did not seem to make any difference. I have bought them on healthcare.gov, and I have received them from employer, and it all seems to be interchangeable from my experience over the last 10+ years.