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> U.S. Steel was once the largest company in the world. You're talking about practically ancient history. "In 1902, its first full year of operation, U.S. Stee

by lapcat 3y ago

> U.S. Steel was once the largest company in the world. You're talking about practically ancient history. "In 1902, its first full year of operation, U.S. Steel made 67 percent of all the steel produced in the United States. About 100 years later, as of 2001, it produced only 8 percent more than it did in 1902, and its shipments accounted for only about 8 percent of domestic consumption." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Steel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Steel The federal government did try to break up U.S. Steel... in 1911.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
I think that's kind of the point. Us steel had a 120 year run without being toppled. This isn't exactly a new phenomenon. It's hard to guess where Apple or Google will be in 100 years
- lapcat 3y ago
  > Us steel had a 120 year run without being toppled. Um, no? It didn't magically go from 67% to 8% in the year 2001. It had already declined. In fact, it started to decline quickly: "Because of heavy debts taken on at the company's formation—Carnegie insisted on being paid in gold bonds for his stake—and fears of antitrust litigation, U.S. Steel moved cautiously. Competitors often innovated faster, especially Bethlehem Steel, run by Charles Schwab, U.S. Steel's former president. U.S. Steel's share of the expanding market slipped to 50 percent by 1911."
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I was talking more about company lifespan given that US steel is up for sale. If you want to talk specifically about average company time in the Fortune 500, that has been going down
    - psunavy03 3y ago
      "Company lifespan" is a stupid metric. Any given company can hold on as best it can or be driven into the ground in a few years, depending on what management and the board does with it. There's no rule in business that says "oh, too old, time for you to go out of business now."
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        I agree, that's why I think it was a stupid metric for the author to use as the basis of their article. It doesn't matter if average F500 company age is increasing when the average time on the f500 is decreasing. This is all beside the fact that company age itself is meaningless when you have a history full of mergers, acquisitions, and even reverse mergers or takeovers.
  - runnerup 3y ago
    > It didn't magically go from 67% to 8% in the year 2001. In fact, it never did that. It went from x million pounds of production to 1.08*x million pounds of production. It also went from 67% domestic market share to y% domestic market share. Gluing a couple sources together it looks like US domestic steel production was worth $90 billion in 2020 and U.S. Steel has a revenue of $21 billion in 2021. That said, this is a volatile market and 2021 had 20-30% higher sales than 2020 and 2022.
jandrese 3y ago
That's really incredible. In the same time period the US population grew from about 80 million to 330 million. Roughly a quadrupling of the population and yet they only produced 7% more steel. Feels more like a company that was run overly conservatively and basically grew old and died.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  It’s a company that got nuked by foreign competition and technology changes in the 70s. Then it reinvented itself on a smaller scale in the 90s. End of the day, steel is a capital intense, low margin business dominated by Asian competition.

by lapcat 3y ago

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I think that's kind of the point. Us steel had a 120 year run without being toppled. This isn't exactly a new phenomenon. It's hard to guess where Apple or Google will be in 100 years

lapcat 3y ago
> Us steel had a 120 year run without being toppled. Um, no? It didn't magically go from 67% to 8% in the year 2001. It had already declined. In fact, it started to decline quickly: "Because of heavy debts taken on at the company's formation—Carnegie insisted on being paid in gold bonds for his stake—and fears of antitrust litigation, U.S. Steel moved cautiously. Competitors often innovated faster, especially Bethlehem Steel, run by Charles Schwab, U.S. Steel's former president. U.S. Steel's share of the expanding market slipped to 50 percent by 1911."
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I was talking more about company lifespan given that US steel is up for sale. If you want to talk specifically about average company time in the Fortune 500, that has been going down
  - psunavy03 3y ago
    "Company lifespan" is a stupid metric. Any given company can hold on as best it can or be driven into the ground in a few years, depending on what management and the board does with it. There's no rule in business that says "oh, too old, time for you to go out of business now."
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      I agree, that's why I think it was a stupid metric for the author to use as the basis of their article. It doesn't matter if average F500 company age is increasing when the average time on the f500 is decreasing. This is all beside the fact that company age itself is meaningless when you have a history full of mergers, acquisitions, and even reverse mergers or takeovers.
- runnerup 3y ago
  > It didn't magically go from 67% to 8% in the year 2001. In fact, it never did that. It went from x million pounds of production to 1.08*x million pounds of production. It also went from 67% domestic market share to y% domestic market share. Gluing a couple sources together it looks like US domestic steel production was worth $90 billion in 2020 and U.S. Steel has a revenue of $21 billion in 2021. That said, this is a volatile market and 2021 had 20-30% higher sales than 2020 and 2022.

jandrese 3y ago

That's really incredible. In the same time period the US population grew from about 80 million to 330 million. Roughly a quadrupling of the population and yet they only produced 7% more steel. Feels more like a company that was run overly conservatively and basically grew old and died.

Spooky23 3y ago
It’s a company that got nuked by foreign competition and technology changes in the 70s. Then it reinvented itself on a smaller scale in the 90s. End of the day, steel is a capital intense, low margin business dominated by Asian competition.