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The Electric-Vehicle Bubble Starts to Deflate

7 points by sam345 3y ago

sam345 3y ago
>About 400 Chinese electric-car makers have failed in the past several years as Beijing reduced industry subsidies while ramping up production mandates Wow, never heard that before. 400 EV companies bit the dust.
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  Wonder how many were making small vehicles at wouldn't be street legal in much of the west.
sam345 3y ago
No Paywall: https://archive.is/imsi9 https://archive.is/imsi9
syndicatedjelly 3y ago
> China’s EV mandate is similar to those imposed by California and the Biden Administration and especially punishes the West’s traditional fossil-fuel auto makers. That was a weird sentence.
- cratermoon 3y ago
  Think of the traditional fossil-fuel auto makers! Just the Wall Street Journal, journaling on Wall Street.
syndicatedjelly 3y ago
> Business failures are inevitable in a dynamic economy, but government will be mainly responsible for the destruction that results from its force-fed EV transition—and the damage may only just be starting. Sheesh. How anti-government can WSJ be. The government is providing a subsidy of 4 figures on these vehicles. I can't think of any petrol car that ever got such a subsidy, including hybrids when they were up and coming (someone correct me if I'm wrong). And now it will be the government's fault, even if they keep the subsidy and keep doing things the right way. Because the market is acclimatizing to the price of a new product. This is like blaming the government for the student loan cris- Oh wait.
- cratermoon 3y ago
  > I can't think of any petrol car that ever got such a subsidy The US interstate system cost about $500 billion. Professor Shoup estimated that the value of the free-parking subsidy to cars was at least $127 billion in 2002: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/business/economy/15view.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/busin... The United States spends an estimated $26 billion per year to subsidize fossil fuels: https://www.nrdc.org/bio/han-chen/time-us-end-fossil-fuel-subsidies https://www.nrdc.org/bio/han-chen/time-us-end-fossil-fuel-su... Including externalities, in the European Union, the cost of automobility is about €500 billion per year: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330184791_The_Social_Cost_of_Automobility_Cycling_and_Walking_in_the_European_Union https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330184791_The_Socia... Petrol cars have and continue to get subsidies amounting to a subsidy many times the value of the vehicles. https://stacker.com/society/how-driving-subsidized-america https://stacker.com/society/how-driving-subsidized-america
  - syndicatedjelly 3y ago
    I don't know the numbers but I'm sure the electrical grid that EV cars rely on is prettily heavily subsidized by the government as well. And the upstream electricity producers generate electricity in a number of ways, including with fossil fuels.
    - cratermoon 3y ago
      > the electrical grid that EV cars rely on ...is the same electrical grid that powers gasoline pumps. I wonder what the conversion from electrical to chemical power is going from the grid to the engine, and how the cost per kilometer compares. If electricity costs $x/kW⋅h and it takes y kW to pump n gallons of gas, which can power a car g(m) kilometers, vs powering an electric car e(m), how do they compare?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

7 points by sam345 3y ago

>About 400 Chinese electric-car makers have failed in the past several years as Beijing reduced industry subsidies while ramping up production mandates Wow, never heard that before. 400 EV companies bit the dust.

Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Wonder how many were making small vehicles at wouldn't be street legal in much of the west.

sam345 3y ago

No Paywall: https://archive.is/imsi9 https://archive.is/imsi9

syndicatedjelly 3y ago

> China’s EV mandate is similar to those imposed by California and the Biden Administration and especially punishes the West’s traditional fossil-fuel auto makers. That was a weird sentence.

cratermoon 3y ago
Think of the traditional fossil-fuel auto makers! Just the Wall Street Journal, journaling on Wall Street.

syndicatedjelly 3y ago

> Business failures are inevitable in a dynamic economy, but government will be mainly responsible for the destruction that results from its force-fed EV transition—and the damage may only just be starting. Sheesh. How anti-government can WSJ be. The government is providing a subsidy of 4 figures on these vehicles. I can't think of any petrol car that ever got such a subsidy, including hybrids when they were up and coming (someone correct me if I'm wrong). And now it will be the government's fault, even if they keep the subsidy and keep doing things the right way. Because the market is acclimatizing to the price of a new product. This is like blaming the government for the student loan cris- Oh wait.

cratermoon 3y ago
> I can't think of any petrol car that ever got such a subsidy The US interstate system cost about $500 billion. Professor Shoup estimated that the value of the free-parking subsidy to cars was at least $127 billion in 2002: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/business/economy/15view.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/busin... The United States spends an estimated $26 billion per year to subsidize fossil fuels: https://www.nrdc.org/bio/han-chen/time-us-end-fossil-fuel-subsidies https://www.nrdc.org/bio/han-chen/time-us-end-fossil-fuel-su... Including externalities, in the European Union, the cost of automobility is about €500 billion per year: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330184791_The_Social_Cost_of_Automobility_Cycling_and_Walking_in_the_European_Union https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330184791_The_Socia... Petrol cars have and continue to get subsidies amounting to a subsidy many times the value of the vehicles. https://stacker.com/society/how-driving-subsidized-america https://stacker.com/society/how-driving-subsidized-america
- syndicatedjelly 3y ago
  I don't know the numbers but I'm sure the electrical grid that EV cars rely on is prettily heavily subsidized by the government as well. And the upstream electricity producers generate electricity in a number of ways, including with fossil fuels.
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    > the electrical grid that EV cars rely on ...is the same electrical grid that powers gasoline pumps. I wonder what the conversion from electrical to chemical power is going from the grid to the engine, and how the cost per kilometer compares. If electricity costs $x/kW⋅h and it takes y kW to pump n gallons of gas, which can power a car g(m) kilometers, vs powering an electric car e(m), how do they compare?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]