5 ms·

Why Congress is considering a ‘right to repair' law for car owners

89 points by danboarder 3y ago

danboarder 3y ago
not certain if this is the federal bill being introduced in Congress that they are referring to, I'm guessing there could be more than one as clarifying rights to things you own is a growing movement: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/6570 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/6570 Edit - from the article, here is the current bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3830 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/383...
say_it_as_it_is 3y ago
Congress is shaking the tree to boost campaign contributions before 2024. The FTC effort to ban non-competes was deferred indefinitely after thousands of law firms loosened their purse strings. Politics remains for sale. This right to repair law is just bait.
Dalrymple 3y ago
'Right to repair' is important and I hope a good law along these lines gets passed, but other tougher problems to solve are also emerging, for example: My understanding is many late model cars are moving the fuel filter to being part of a larger assembly inside the fuel tank. On an older car, a clogged fuel filter (a common problem)could be replaced cheaply and easily. My car's fuel filter cost less than $15. But once they put it inside the gas tank, the repair is much more costly. The shop needs to pump the gas out of the tank, remove the tank from the car and take the tank apart to replace whatever the replaceable assembly is on that model. It appears that car makers are doing this to increase service revenue and to greatly increase customer cost and inconvenience. The inconvenience is a two hour trip to Jiffy Lube or an even faster self-repair becomes a two or three week wait for a major repair appointment and a bill hundreds of dollars more. I commonly replace discrete (stand-alone)fuel filters 6 to 8 times over the life of my vehicles. If anyone has a list of car brands that have or have not adopted this design change, please post.
- m463 3y ago
  I think no spare tire is a bigger deal. Some cars have a specific space for them, so you can add them, but newer designs (tesla) do not. Runflats are a sort-of-workaround.
  - ryaneager 3y ago
    Is it though? Worst case call road side assistance and what an hour or two. Now if you live in the back country, okay, but for the majority of people it’s just an extra 40 pounds to lug around to use once or twice.
    - xen0 3y ago
      A spare can be the difference between arriving somewhere 30 minutes late and waiting two hours to be taken home.
      - Our_Benefactors 3y ago
        This is the overlooked part, a spare lets you actually continue the journey
    - whutsurnaym 3y ago
      Sure, as long as you have a charged, working cell phone and can afford to pay for roadside assistance. If your phone died or your bank account is in the red, you're screwed. Actual worst case, you're stuck on the side of the road god-knows-where, for god-knows-how-long, hoping that someone will drive by and have the decency to stop and help. I think I'll buy a car with a spare tire.
    - foxyv 3y ago
      I love having a spare tire, but some people are STUPID about them. Especially those dumb donuts. They will drive on them at excessive speeds and for obscene amounts of time. They are kind of a public hazard. Full size spares are cool though.
- 3y ago
m463 3y ago
I found out recently that apparently tesla allows you to log in through your tesla account and read the service manuals for free. They used to suck, requiring extremely expensive subscriptions to do this. Now, they allow owners to have access to the manuals, but I don't think this lets third parties see them for free. also I believe the software to access your car is not free, and they restrict access to your car just like apple restricts access to your own phone.
- more_corn 3y ago
  But they still won’t sell you parts or allow anyone else to make them.
  - profile53 3y ago
    AFAIK Tesla does sell parts to owners, you’ll just have to go in person to a dealership. Anyone with a Tesla able to weigh in?
- bboygravity 3y ago
  This is one of the very few times that I read valid critisism on Tesla instead of baseless infotainment parroting. Thanks a lot for that (non sarcastic).
KirillPanov 3y ago
To preempt the states' right to repair laws. Standard lobbying strategy.
LazyMans 3y ago
I do as much work as possible on my cars, it’s the only reason I would consider a Mercedes really. It will be interesting to see how this plays out because Mercedes provides access to the same workshop manuals a dealer has via a subscription to anybody on their website. However, the diagnostic tool to communicate with the car and the accompanying software is around $20,000. Well out of reach for home techs, but a necessity for any indy shop. Technically Mercedes is allowing anybody to repair, but without pricing controls they can make it excessively expensive. Luckily for about $300 you can get a working “clone” from alibaba, then pay someone $50 to install a cracked version of the workshop software on a laptop. There is no reason these devices and the accompanying software need to be so expensive. Some interesting pricing models I’ve seen before, are with a BUDS system for Seadoo. For $200 I get a controller and a license that ties the software to my ski. Since a workshop would be repairing many skis, the “unlimited” license is significantly more. I think a similar system could be adopted here for Mercedes at least. Also, incredibly thankful for 3rd party manufacturers of replacement parts. Especially the companies that offer electronic repair services. A simple ABS module can be $900 from the dealer, then needs to be programmed. Meanwhile you could send this to a competent electronics repair shop that could diagnose and repair the device for a fraction of that, and eliminate the need to reprogram the device for your car after.
fatnoah 3y ago
I live in a state (MA) that recently passed such a law. Based solely on the advertising from both sides, it was obvious that voting for it was the correct thing to do. The best the opposition could do was to create two commercials. One featured an independent mechanic (a body shop, as it turns out) talking about how he doesn't need that info and a commercial featuring a woman about to be assaulted in her garage, presumably because right to repair enabled some nefarious actor to get her garage code.
- voxic11 3y ago
  Makes me wonder if this is an attempt to preempt the new laws in states like MA with a weaker federal law.
  - fatnoah 3y ago
    I thought that as well, and it's something I worry about.

89 points by danboarder 3y ago

not certain if this is the federal bill being introduced in Congress that they are referring to, I'm guessing there could be more than one as clarifying rights to things you own is a growing movement: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/6570 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/6570 Edit - from the article, here is the current bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3830 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/383...

say_it_as_it_is 3y ago

Congress is shaking the tree to boost campaign contributions before 2024. The FTC effort to ban non-competes was deferred indefinitely after thousands of law firms loosened their purse strings. Politics remains for sale. This right to repair law is just bait.

Dalrymple 3y ago

'Right to repair' is important and I hope a good law along these lines gets passed, but other tougher problems to solve are also emerging, for example: My understanding is many late model cars are moving the fuel filter to being part of a larger assembly inside the fuel tank. On an older car, a clogged fuel filter (a common problem)could be replaced cheaply and easily. My car's fuel filter cost less than $15. But once they put it inside the gas tank, the repair is much more costly. The shop needs to pump the gas out of the tank, remove the tank from the car and take the tank apart to replace whatever the replaceable assembly is on that model. It appears that car makers are doing this to increase service revenue and to greatly increase customer cost and inconvenience. The inconvenience is a two hour trip to Jiffy Lube or an even faster self-repair becomes a two or three week wait for a major repair appointment and a bill hundreds of dollars more. I commonly replace discrete (stand-alone)fuel filters 6 to 8 times over the life of my vehicles. If anyone has a list of car brands that have or have not adopted this design change, please post.

m463 3y ago
I think no spare tire is a bigger deal. Some cars have a specific space for them, so you can add them, but newer designs (tesla) do not. Runflats are a sort-of-workaround.
- ryaneager 3y ago
  Is it though? Worst case call road side assistance and what an hour or two. Now if you live in the back country, okay, but for the majority of people it’s just an extra 40 pounds to lug around to use once or twice.
  - xen0 3y ago
    A spare can be the difference between arriving somewhere 30 minutes late and waiting two hours to be taken home.
    - Our_Benefactors 3y ago
      This is the overlooked part, a spare lets you actually continue the journey
  - whutsurnaym 3y ago
    Sure, as long as you have a charged, working cell phone and can afford to pay for roadside assistance. If your phone died or your bank account is in the red, you're screwed. Actual worst case, you're stuck on the side of the road god-knows-where, for god-knows-how-long, hoping that someone will drive by and have the decency to stop and help. I think I'll buy a car with a spare tire.
  - foxyv 3y ago
    I love having a spare tire, but some people are STUPID about them. Especially those dumb donuts. They will drive on them at excessive speeds and for obscene amounts of time. They are kind of a public hazard. Full size spares are cool though.
3y ago

m463 3y ago

I found out recently that apparently tesla allows you to log in through your tesla account and read the service manuals for free. They used to suck, requiring extremely expensive subscriptions to do this. Now, they allow owners to have access to the manuals, but I don't think this lets third parties see them for free. also I believe the software to access your car is not free, and they restrict access to your car just like apple restricts access to your own phone.

more_corn 3y ago
But they still won’t sell you parts or allow anyone else to make them.
- profile53 3y ago
  AFAIK Tesla does sell parts to owners, you’ll just have to go in person to a dealership. Anyone with a Tesla able to weigh in?
bboygravity 3y ago
This is one of the very few times that I read valid critisism on Tesla instead of baseless infotainment parroting. Thanks a lot for that (non sarcastic).

KirillPanov 3y ago

To preempt the states' right to repair laws. Standard lobbying strategy.

LazyMans 3y ago

I do as much work as possible on my cars, it’s the only reason I would consider a Mercedes really. It will be interesting to see how this plays out because Mercedes provides access to the same workshop manuals a dealer has via a subscription to anybody on their website. However, the diagnostic tool to communicate with the car and the accompanying software is around $20,000. Well out of reach for home techs, but a necessity for any indy shop. Technically Mercedes is allowing anybody to repair, but without pricing controls they can make it excessively expensive. Luckily for about $300 you can get a working “clone” from alibaba, then pay someone $50 to install a cracked version of the workshop software on a laptop. There is no reason these devices and the accompanying software need to be so expensive. Some interesting pricing models I’ve seen before, are with a BUDS system for Seadoo. For $200 I get a controller and a license that ties the software to my ski. Since a workshop would be repairing many skis, the “unlimited” license is significantly more. I think a similar system could be adopted here for Mercedes at least. Also, incredibly thankful for 3rd party manufacturers of replacement parts. Especially the companies that offer electronic repair services. A simple ABS module can be $900 from the dealer, then needs to be programmed. Meanwhile you could send this to a competent electronics repair shop that could diagnose and repair the device for a fraction of that, and eliminate the need to reprogram the device for your car after.

fatnoah 3y ago

I live in a state (MA) that recently passed such a law. Based solely on the advertising from both sides, it was obvious that voting for it was the correct thing to do. The best the opposition could do was to create two commercials. One featured an independent mechanic (a body shop, as it turns out) talking about how he doesn't need that info and a commercial featuring a woman about to be assaulted in her garage, presumably because right to repair enabled some nefarious actor to get her garage code.

voxic11 3y ago
Makes me wonder if this is an attempt to preempt the new laws in states like MA with a weaker federal law.
- fatnoah 3y ago
  I thought that as well, and it's something I worry about.