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If this is "slavery"... why should anyone care? The idea that they can be forced to work without pay bothers you, but that they can be forced to live in a cage

If this is "slavery"... why should anyone care? The idea that they can be forced to work without pay bothers you, but that they can be forced to live in a cage doesn't?

gambiting 3y ago
Because literally no prisoner in the USA has been explicitly sentenced to this. If you are in prison your sentence is almost certainly restriction of your freedom for a period of time, and not imprisonment + "being forced to work". The fact that the prison system can benefit off of that should offend you and you should be outraged that this is happening across the country.
- carabiner 3y ago
  It's not only license plates. It's wildland firefighters protecting California mansions and assemblers of furniture to be sold at Walmart. China points this out as unethical labor practices, and they're exactly right.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  > Because literally no prisoner in the USA has been explicitly sentenced to this. I think it's implied in the "incarceration" part of their sentences. But when and where it isn't, I'd be happy to include that in the sentence, if that's your only objection. For the record, some sentences do seem to include the term "hard labor" and the like.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    > I think it's implied in the "incarceration" part of their sentences. The legal profession and justice system is anything but friendly to things 'implied'. > But when and where it isn't, I'd be happy to include that in the sentence Are you a judge or a legislator? > For the record, some sentences do seem to include the term "hard labor" and the like. I have searched but can find no source which will cite anyone in the recent era sentenced to 'hard labor'. If you can find one I would be grateful.
- philwelch 3y ago
  > Because literally no prisoner in the USA has been explicitly sentenced to this. False. Arizona law, for one example, specifically provides for sentences of “hard labor”: https://www.azleg.gov/ars/31/00141.htm https://www.azleg.gov/ars/31/00141.htm
  - gambiting 3y ago
    Ok, I stand corrected - but I imagine vast majority of prisoners haven't been sentenced to such(in fact have any such sentences ever been handed out in recent times?).
hugey010 3y ago
It provides a perverse incentive for those running prisons (usually the government but also private owners) to put more people in prison for their slave labor.
- philwelch 3y ago
  It costs a lot more to incarcerate a prisoner than their labor will ever pay for, so there’s no meaningful incentive from the government itself. Private prisons have an incentive to incarcerate more prisoners regardless of prison labor—as do corrections officer unions—and I can understand abolishing both of those (the unions are probably an even bigger problem). Nonetheless, judging by our high rates of violent crime, it seems clear to me that the United States isn’t incarcerating enough people.

If this is "slavery"... why should anyone care? The idea that they can be forced to work without pay bothers you, but that they can be forced to live in a cage doesn't?

gambiting 3y ago

Because literally no prisoner in the USA has been explicitly sentenced to this. If you are in prison your sentence is almost certainly restriction of your freedom for a period of time, and not imprisonment + "being forced to work". The fact that the prison system can benefit off of that should offend you and you should be outraged that this is happening across the country.

carabiner 3y ago
It's not only license plates. It's wildland firefighters protecting California mansions and assemblers of furniture to be sold at Walmart. China points this out as unethical labor practices, and they're exactly right.
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
> Because literally no prisoner in the USA has been explicitly sentenced to this. I think it's implied in the "incarceration" part of their sentences. But when and where it isn't, I'd be happy to include that in the sentence, if that's your only objection. For the record, some sentences do seem to include the term "hard labor" and the like.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  > I think it's implied in the "incarceration" part of their sentences. The legal profession and justice system is anything but friendly to things 'implied'. > But when and where it isn't, I'd be happy to include that in the sentence Are you a judge or a legislator? > For the record, some sentences do seem to include the term "hard labor" and the like. I have searched but can find no source which will cite anyone in the recent era sentenced to 'hard labor'. If you can find one I would be grateful.
philwelch 3y ago
> Because literally no prisoner in the USA has been explicitly sentenced to this. False. Arizona law, for one example, specifically provides for sentences of “hard labor”: https://www.azleg.gov/ars/31/00141.htm https://www.azleg.gov/ars/31/00141.htm
- gambiting 3y ago
  Ok, I stand corrected - but I imagine vast majority of prisoners haven't been sentenced to such(in fact have any such sentences ever been handed out in recent times?).

hugey010 3y ago

It provides a perverse incentive for those running prisons (usually the government but also private owners) to put more people in prison for their slave labor.

philwelch 3y ago
It costs a lot more to incarcerate a prisoner than their labor will ever pay for, so there’s no meaningful incentive from the government itself. Private prisons have an incentive to incarcerate more prisoners regardless of prison labor—as do corrections officer unions—and I can understand abolishing both of those (the unions are probably an even bigger problem). Nonetheless, judging by our high rates of violent crime, it seems clear to me that the United States isn’t incarcerating enough people.