3 ms·

Bullshit. Don't fucking drink and drive. It's not hard for most people. If you can't handle alcohol, how can you be expected to be a bartender? You really think

by feoren 3y ago

Bullshit. Don't fucking drink and drive. It's not hard for most people. If you can't handle alcohol, how can you be expected to be a bartender? You really think having such a deep-seated problem with alcohol that you are willing to commit murder over it is somehow unrelated to employment as a bartender!? If someone was caught firing guns randomly into buildings, do you think that would be unrelated to their employment in a gun store?

ethbr1 3y ago
The problem is that felony DUI (as opposed to lesser charges) is also about (a) a serious incident happening while you're intoxicated (chance) and (b) government prosecution discretion (serious bias). That's an awful lots of "if"s to attach to a lifelong limitation. F.ex. Do we all want to bet how often politician and wealthy donors' children take a felony DUI charge vs the general populace?
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  There is zero "chance" in being in serious accident while intoxicated. Nobody fell down on a bottle of whiskey and accidentally drank it and then chose to drive. We can have a meaningful discussion whether a single bad decision should destroy a life,but let's call it what it is, a decision, not a "chance".
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    If someone gets shitfaced, there's a good chance they make it home without killing anyone or being caught. They go unpunished. And yet, they were still committing the crime of driving under the influence... they (and everyone else) just got lucky. Personally, I think bars should just be required to take keys. Take a breathalyzer, get your keys back. And the bar has liability for this. These aren't rocket science, million dollar devices.
    - morelisp 3y ago
      > the bar has liability for this. In most states they already do, under so-called "dram shop laws." But since it's very easy to lie about where someone was drinking, the incentives are such you still need the bar owner willing to enforce this. If only we had some heuristics for who might be appropriate!
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        Cryptographically-signed networked breathalyzers? :) And require a bar to be able to produce a signed result for anyone who bought a drink at their establishment, if subsequently requested. There will always be loopholes, but it feels like we could do more to preclude DUIs instead of punishing only those we catch.
    - jimmydddd 3y ago
      Many of my friends drove after drinking heavily at bars in their 20's and luckily never had any accidents. 30 years ago driving under the influence was more common. If a cop pulled you over and you were close to home, he might let you go with a warning and just say "you'd better go straight home." Now my friends can't believe how stupid they were and are very thankful that they were lucky. Different times.
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        Exactly. It bugs me that we make the penalties for DUI so severe... when the reality of being charged depends so much on chance (getting caught, officer testing and arresting you, prosecutor deciding what to let you plea to). If we really cared about it as much as the legal penalties make us feel like we do, there wouldn't be any wiggle room for wink-wink, nudge-nudge. Three people shouldn't be able to do the same thing, and one gets the book thrown at them while the other two have zero consequences.
lsaferite 3y ago
Maybe tone it down a little and reply to what was _written_. Go read the link provided. > a felony conviction of *any* type.

by feoren 3y ago

ethbr1 3y ago

The problem is that felony DUI (as opposed to lesser charges) is also about (a) a serious incident happening while you're intoxicated (chance) and (b) government prosecution discretion (serious bias). That's an awful lots of "if"s to attach to a lifelong limitation. F.ex. Do we all want to bet how often politician and wealthy donors' children take a felony DUI charge vs the general populace?

NikolaNovak 3y ago
There is zero "chance" in being in serious accident while intoxicated. Nobody fell down on a bottle of whiskey and accidentally drank it and then chose to drive. We can have a meaningful discussion whether a single bad decision should destroy a life,but let's call it what it is, a decision, not a "chance".
- ethbr1 3y ago
  If someone gets shitfaced, there's a good chance they make it home without killing anyone or being caught. They go unpunished. And yet, they were still committing the crime of driving under the influence... they (and everyone else) just got lucky. Personally, I think bars should just be required to take keys. Take a breathalyzer, get your keys back. And the bar has liability for this. These aren't rocket science, million dollar devices.
  - morelisp 3y ago
    > the bar has liability for this. In most states they already do, under so-called "dram shop laws." But since it's very easy to lie about where someone was drinking, the incentives are such you still need the bar owner willing to enforce this. If only we had some heuristics for who might be appropriate!
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      Cryptographically-signed networked breathalyzers? :) And require a bar to be able to produce a signed result for anyone who bought a drink at their establishment, if subsequently requested. There will always be loopholes, but it feels like we could do more to preclude DUIs instead of punishing only those we catch.
  - jimmydddd 3y ago
    Many of my friends drove after drinking heavily at bars in their 20's and luckily never had any accidents. 30 years ago driving under the influence was more common. If a cop pulled you over and you were close to home, he might let you go with a warning and just say "you'd better go straight home." Now my friends can't believe how stupid they were and are very thankful that they were lucky. Different times.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      Exactly. It bugs me that we make the penalties for DUI so severe... when the reality of being charged depends so much on chance (getting caught, officer testing and arresting you, prosecutor deciding what to let you plea to). If we really cared about it as much as the legal penalties make us feel like we do, there wouldn't be any wiggle room for wink-wink, nudge-nudge. Three people shouldn't be able to do the same thing, and one gets the book thrown at them while the other two have zero consequences.

lsaferite 3y ago

Maybe tone it down a little and reply to what was _written_. Go read the link provided. > a felony conviction of *any* type.