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Ensey's sister in law and brother own the Historic Elgin Hotel, one of them currently holds the liquor license for the restaurant, as it used to be their restau

Ensey's sister in law and brother own the Historic Elgin Hotel, one of them currently holds the liquor license for the restaurant, as it used to be their restaurant. The restaurant business is owned by Kari Newell (who purchased it from the Enseys in February) and operates out of the lobby of the Elgin hotel. Kari Newell is the individual with the DUI that is attempting to get the liquor license and whose information was allegedly obtained illegally, prompting the search. I'm not sure this is grounds for disqualification. No matter how Ensey decides to proceed against the police I don't think it moves the needle on whether or not Newell gets her liquor license or doesn't, so can't possibly harm or help his family's interests. EDIT: Maybe the argument that he's biased is that he's inclined to sweep it under the run to keep his family's name out of the paper? That's reasonable.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> not sure this is grounds for disqualification It seems a felony DUI conviction would bar Newell from securing a liquor license [1]. (I don't believe Newell had a felony DUI conviction.) [1] https://www.ksrevenue.gov/abcemployeefaqs.html https://www.ksrevenue.gov/abcemployeefaqs.html
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > Is there a time limit on felony convictions? > No, a felony must be expunged to work as an employee who serves, mixes and dispenses alcohol or manages employees who handle alcohol. Jesus. Stripping people of their employment for a few years is acceptable if the offense is related to the employment. But forcing someone to switch careers or to sell their business for life? That's nuts.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > forcing someone to switch careers or to sell their business for life It looks like a felony DUI in Kansas means you're on your third or fourth DUI [1]. [1] https://www.duikc.com/felony-dui-dwi-in-kansas-missouri https://www.duikc.com/felony-dui-dwi-in-kansas-missouri
  - feoren 3y ago
    Bullshit. Don't fucking drink and drive. It's not hard for most people. If you can't handle alcohol, how can you be expected to be a bartender? You really think having such a deep-seated problem with alcohol that you are willing to commit murder over it is somehow unrelated to employment as a bartender!? If someone was caught firing guns randomly into buildings, do you think that would be unrelated to their employment in a gun store?
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      The problem is that felony DUI (as opposed to lesser charges) is also about (a) a serious incident happening while you're intoxicated (chance) and (b) government prosecution discretion (serious bias). That's an awful lots of "if"s to attach to a lifelong limitation. F.ex. Do we all want to bet how often politician and wealthy donors' children take a felony DUI charge vs the general populace?
      - NikolaNovak 3y ago
        There is zero "chance" in being in serious accident while intoxicated. Nobody fell down on a bottle of whiskey and accidentally drank it and then chose to drive. We can have a meaningful discussion whether a single bad decision should destroy a life,but let's call it what it is, a decision, not a "chance".
        ethbr1 3y ago
        If someone gets shitfaced, there's a good chance they make it home without killing anyone or being caught. They go unpunished. And yet, they were still committing the crime of driving under the influence... they (and everyone else) just got lucky. Personally, I think bars should just be required to take keys. Take a breathalyzer, get your keys back. And the bar has liability for this. These aren't rocket science, million dollar devices.
        morelisp 3y ago
        > the bar has liability for this. In most states they already do, under so-called "dram shop laws." But since it's very easy to lie about where someone was drinking, the incentives are such you still need the bar owner willing to enforce this. If only we had some heuristics for who might be appropriate!
  - radicaldreamer 3y ago
    A felony DUI conviction isn't a joke, people die all the time from others drunk driving and it's totally reasonable to prevent someone who can't manage their liquor from having access to an enormous quantity of wholesale liquor. These things can typically be plead down to a lesser charge if its a first offense etc., so if it stuck as a felony conviction, there must've been serious circumstances (I'm speculating here, we don't know the details of the conviction).
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      And also be serving alcohol to others...
  - justin66 3y ago
    In practice this affects DUI felons who want to work with liquor and either: 1) will not or cannot spend $200 on an expungement, or 2) did something disgusting enough during the course of committing their felony that a judge cannot be persuaded to expunge their conviction record. (I just assume there's some judicial discretion with this in Kansas.) As the grandparent post noted, there's no reason to assume the felony rules are relevant in this case.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    I have no issue with not allowing someone that has this much problem with alcohol not being allowed to work around alcohol. However, preventing someone the ability to vote for life is something I'd agree with you if that's what you want to get upset about, but you're current argument falls flat
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    Your sentence on its own would be alarming if it were generalized. But this is specific and particular. A person dispensing alcohol in many states and provinces is legally responsible for safety of their patrons. Argument might be made that in all cases they have some moral responsibility as well - although I understand there are people who will philosophically disagree with this and I think interesting discussion can be had there. A person with "felony DUI" has proven to a tremendous (and usually repeated) degree that they cannot execute a key portion of what their liquor license actually entails. So understanding slippery slope arguments and so on, in this one case, I'm not outraged at the regulation.
    - lsaferite 3y ago
      Just to be clear, the restriction is with ANY felony conviction.
  - lokar 3y ago
    It’s not just any employment. The state has a very reasonable interest in ensuring laws around the sale of alcohol are followed. License holders are in effect agents of the state in this regard. They can work in a bar with the conviction, just not run it.
    - lsaferite 3y ago
      > Yes, owners or employees who serve, mix or dispense alcohol cannot have a felony conviction of any type. According to the link provided above, no, you cannot work with alcohol in a license holding establishment with ANY felony.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> not sure this is grounds for disqualification It seems a felony DUI conviction would bar Newell from securing a liquor license [1]. (I don't believe Newell had a felony DUI conviction.) [1] https://www.ksrevenue.gov/abcemployeefaqs.html https://www.ksrevenue.gov/abcemployeefaqs.html

mschuster91 3y ago
> Is there a time limit on felony convictions? > No, a felony must be expunged to work as an employee who serves, mixes and dispenses alcohol or manages employees who handle alcohol. Jesus. Stripping people of their employment for a few years is acceptable if the offense is related to the employment. But forcing someone to switch careers or to sell their business for life? That's nuts.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > forcing someone to switch careers or to sell their business for life It looks like a felony DUI in Kansas means you're on your third or fourth DUI [1]. [1] https://www.duikc.com/felony-dui-dwi-in-kansas-missouri https://www.duikc.com/felony-dui-dwi-in-kansas-missouri
- feoren 3y ago
  Bullshit. Don't fucking drink and drive. It's not hard for most people. If you can't handle alcohol, how can you be expected to be a bartender? You really think having such a deep-seated problem with alcohol that you are willing to commit murder over it is somehow unrelated to employment as a bartender!? If someone was caught firing guns randomly into buildings, do you think that would be unrelated to their employment in a gun store?
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    The problem is that felony DUI (as opposed to lesser charges) is also about (a) a serious incident happening while you're intoxicated (chance) and (b) government prosecution discretion (serious bias). That's an awful lots of "if"s to attach to a lifelong limitation. F.ex. Do we all want to bet how often politician and wealthy donors' children take a felony DUI charge vs the general populace?
    - NikolaNovak 3y ago
      There is zero "chance" in being in serious accident while intoxicated. Nobody fell down on a bottle of whiskey and accidentally drank it and then chose to drive. We can have a meaningful discussion whether a single bad decision should destroy a life,but let's call it what it is, a decision, not a "chance".
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        If someone gets shitfaced, there's a good chance they make it home without killing anyone or being caught. They go unpunished. And yet, they were still committing the crime of driving under the influence... they (and everyone else) just got lucky. Personally, I think bars should just be required to take keys. Take a breathalyzer, get your keys back. And the bar has liability for this. These aren't rocket science, million dollar devices.
        morelisp 3y ago
        > the bar has liability for this. In most states they already do, under so-called "dram shop laws." But since it's very easy to lie about where someone was drinking, the incentives are such you still need the bar owner willing to enforce this. If only we had some heuristics for who might be appropriate!
- radicaldreamer 3y ago
  A felony DUI conviction isn't a joke, people die all the time from others drunk driving and it's totally reasonable to prevent someone who can't manage their liquor from having access to an enormous quantity of wholesale liquor. These things can typically be plead down to a lesser charge if its a first offense etc., so if it stuck as a felony conviction, there must've been serious circumstances (I'm speculating here, we don't know the details of the conviction).
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    And also be serving alcohol to others...
- justin66 3y ago
  In practice this affects DUI felons who want to work with liquor and either: 1) will not or cannot spend $200 on an expungement, or 2) did something disgusting enough during the course of committing their felony that a judge cannot be persuaded to expunge their conviction record. (I just assume there's some judicial discretion with this in Kansas.) As the grandparent post noted, there's no reason to assume the felony rules are relevant in this case.
- dylan604 3y ago
  I have no issue with not allowing someone that has this much problem with alcohol not being allowed to work around alcohol. However, preventing someone the ability to vote for life is something I'd agree with you if that's what you want to get upset about, but you're current argument falls flat
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  Your sentence on its own would be alarming if it were generalized. But this is specific and particular. A person dispensing alcohol in many states and provinces is legally responsible for safety of their patrons. Argument might be made that in all cases they have some moral responsibility as well - although I understand there are people who will philosophically disagree with this and I think interesting discussion can be had there. A person with "felony DUI" has proven to a tremendous (and usually repeated) degree that they cannot execute a key portion of what their liquor license actually entails. So understanding slippery slope arguments and so on, in this one case, I'm not outraged at the regulation.
  - lsaferite 3y ago
    Just to be clear, the restriction is with ANY felony conviction.
- lokar 3y ago
  It’s not just any employment. The state has a very reasonable interest in ensuring laws around the sale of alcohol are followed. License holders are in effect agents of the state in this regard. They can work in a bar with the conviction, just not run it.
  - lsaferite 3y ago
    > Yes, owners or employees who serve, mix or dispense alcohol cannot have a felony conviction of any type. According to the link provided above, no, you cannot work with alcohol in a license holding establishment with ANY felony.