21 ms·

According to "in 2013 dollars" [0], $80,000 today is worth roughly $68,000 in 2020 dollars. Inflation is kicking everyone's ass. If you haven't gotten a signifi

According to "in 2013 dollars" [0], $80,000 today is worth roughly $68,000 in 2020 dollars. Inflation is kicking everyone's ass. If you haven't gotten a significant raise in the last couple years, you've probably taken a rather large pay cut. [0] https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2020?amount=68000 https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2020?amount=68000

danielvaughn 3y ago
My salary is $25k higher than it was in 2021 and I have less disposable income than I did back then. It's insane.
- mydriasis 3y ago
  I hear you. It's tough out there, getting tougher all the time. Fingers crossed that the rate-racking the fed is doing helps slow it down a bit. I talk to my family about it all the time -- we're very lucky where we're at. We wonder how many people are managing to keep food on the table with these prices and the inability of wages to keep up. My mom works at a donation center focused on veterans, and they give out food several weekends out of the month. They're breaking records for visitors every month now.
  - landemva 3y ago
    > Fingers crossed that the rate-racking the fed is doing helps slow it down a bit. Along with finger crossing and hoping, we could look for causes of price increases, and then force the politicians to end the inflation-inducing military conflict in eastern Europe.
    - ye-olde-sysrq 3y ago
      If this inflation is the price of liberty for Ukrainians and the price of independence from a dictator for Western Europe, then I am willing to pay that, personally. I just don't think Ukraine explains that much beyond natural gas prices going up, as far as I'm aware, and even that I suspect is limited to Europe. (I am in the US).
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        I agree with you that it would be worth it, but it's also definitely not what caused inflation.
        landemva 3y ago
        Historical timeline of USA central bank rates and world events: March 3, 2020 -50 basis points March 14-15, 2020 -100 basis points Feb 19 2022 Zelensky speech puts in question 1994 nuclear disarmament agreement. Feb 20 2022 VP Harris in Munich encourages Ukraine entry into NATO, "So I respect President Zelensky’s desire to be a member of NATO." Feb 24 2022 Russia in to Ukraine. March 15-16 2022 rate increases begin. Federal Reserve recognized war. Zelensky nuclear ambitions speech translated: https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-security-conference/ https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-... Harris talking about Ukraine joining NATO: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/02/20/remarks-by-vice-president-harris-in-press-gaggle-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...
        frumper 3y ago
        Something can happen in the world and not be the causation for the other. It's totally possible.
        landemva 3y ago
        It is possible. What other event caused Federal Reserve to suddenly raise rates in March 2022?
        ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        (somewhat) interesting question, it might be worth discussing sometime anyways, do you have any evidence for the causality you suggested here? so far it hasn't been very convincing keep in mind, as you make your case, that most posters here are smart enough to not fall for a "post hoc ergo proper hoc" fallacy
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      unfortunately, no matter how much we want the conflict to end, it won't without the commitment of russia to end it, which means withdrawing their Ukrainian-toddler-raping troops* from Ukraine and ending their attempted 3rd russian genocide of Ukrainians** * - per a UN investigation ** - with the Holodomor and the deportation of the Crimean Tatars being at least 2 previous russian genocides of Ukrainians
  - bluSCALE4 3y ago
    What worries me is this "we're lucky" sentiment is only temporary. In my situation, if my pay drastically changes due to emerging technologies causing future job cuts and order of magnitude competition over jobs, "we're lucky" can turn to "we're worried" in a year and "we're screwed" in 10... if "we're lucky". Compound that with property taxes: I just heard a neighbors condo's taxes go up from 8k to 18k in a single year.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      > Compound that with property taxes: I just heard a neighbors condo's taxes go up from 8k to 18k in a single year. This must be a special case of not having the correct assessed value, or an error and they are including condo association costs in their property tax. Even at a 3% property tax rate, which very few Americans have, a $10k increase means a $333k increase in assessed value for a condo. 1% to 2% property tax rates are more likely, which would mean a ~$667k increase in assessed value.
    - scruple 3y ago
      In my own situation, it's gone from "we're blessed" to "our kids generation is fucked" in the span of 5 years.
  - taylodl 3y ago
    If you think this is bad then you should have been around in the mid-70's to early 80's after Nixon unilaterally bended Bretton Woods and threw the global monetary regime into chaos. I still remember mortgage rates of 12% to 15% and lots of young families being shut out of the housing market - at the same time apartment complexes were being built everywhere. Sound familiar?
    - hnhmp 3y ago
      The idea that it was worse back then has been thoroughly debunked. The unfortunate truth is that property values have soared (due to lack of supply), inflation continues as it does, and wages have totally stagnated. Those combined together mean that however bad it was for families back then (and I'm sure it was bad! Housing insecurity is something folks should never have to face, and I'm sorry you went through it too), it's just worse for people today, full stop. This isn't the oppression olympics, I don't want to tell you that you didn't have it bad, or anything like that. But it just sucks to be facing a very real problem today and have people incorrectly tell you that it was worse before. Not only does the existence of a problem 50 years ago not negate the existence of a problem today, but people in politics and on the internet want to tell us that it's not as bad as we think it is, when in reality it's much worse than they think.
      - taylodl 3y ago
        You're only looking at one aspect - housing. What's missing in this analysis is that fuel costs had risen 400% in a very short time frame, and in an economy that was much more fuel-dependent than it is today. Imagine if gasoline were to rapidly rise to over $12 per gallon? Natural gas was even worse, we had actual shortages, so you can imagine what that did to the market. I still remember the president of the United States addressing the nation from the Oval Office wearing a cardigan to set an example that it was okay to turn the thermostat down and bundle up. The speed limit on the interstate had been dropped to 55 MPH to encourage people to driver slower and conserve fuel. Housing was just yet another problem at the time. The problem with housing today is an amazing lack of foresight from our so-called leaders then. Everyone accommodated the Boomers (I'm Gen X). They didn't have enough houses for the Boomers - let alone the kids the Boomers would have (the Millennials) who would be living as adults at the same time as their parents. There was a rash of home-building in the 40's, 50's and 60's, and then it slowed way down, never to reach those levels again. Meanwhile, advances in healthcare increased people's lifetimes, exacerbating a housing shortage that all the experts were warning about even back in the 70's and yet nothing was being done about. I say all this to say I see the same thing happening with the climate "debate" today. We know what's coming. What know what the economic impacts are going to be. But we sit and equivocate and do nothing. If you think today's housing crises is bad, wait until you see what hits us in 30-40 years! Funny too how the ever-vaunted market failed to solve the housing issue...but that's a story for another time.
- argentinian 3y ago
  That's what always happened in Argentina. Government prints money so they have more to spend, but it's not without consequences. Then they blame businessmen for the rising prices, and uneducated voters believe them. And now with the US media promoting insane ideas like 'modern monetary theory' it may become more common.
  - ptero 3y ago
    I believe this setup works (until it does not, but does work for a very long time) in Argentina in large part due to currency controls making it hard to purchase dollars. Should the same high-inflation state come to the US it would be a very interesting state (technically interesting, not meaning this in a nasty "I plan to watch this show from the outside" way). With current opportunities to easily move between the dollar, other currencies, gold, BTC, etc. should the high (20+%) inflation expectation become entrenched the government will find it hard to force people to buy dollars. When anyone can move a large hedging sum from dollar to Swiss franc or Norwegian krone, forcing the local citizenry to buy rapidly depreciated fiat is virtually impossible. My 2c.
    - argentinian 3y ago
      Democtrats may be already evaluating the benefits of currency controls.
      - ptero 3y ago
        I am sure they are, but with the options built up during the globalization it will be much, much harder than in Argentina (Cuba, Soviet Union, etc.) in the last century. Not impossible, but very hard. Also, after three decades of globalization currency controls will hit virtually every business, so this will likely be broadly unpopular. Again, not impossible, but I personally view it as very unlikely without dictatorial powers held by one, or a very few, strong individuals. But we shall see...
rmbyrro 3y ago
Exactly. People are only trying to keep up with inflation created by easing monetary policy and supply-demand imbalances during COVID and post-COVID.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  People keep repeating this like this is a self-obvious truth. Both of these factors are long gone. IMO, there are two major components to inflation. 1. The war in Ukraine spiked energy and food prices. People don't fully grasp how fundamental energy costs are to prices. Energy costs are X1% of the cost of a good, X2% of the cost of the parts in that good, X3% of the cost of the materials in those parts, X4% of the factory and tooling, X5% for transport of all those goods, parts, materials, tooling, et cetera. It takes a while to ripple through. The energy cost spike in 1973 caused the inflation crisis of the late 70s and early 80s IMO. 2. Housing, which is a systemic issue that far predates COVID.
  - lapcat 3y ago
    You forgot corporate profiteering. Even the Wall Street Journal now admits it: https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-is-inflation-so-sticky-it-could-be-corporate-profits-b78d90b7 https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-is-inflation-so-sticky-it-c...
  - walleeee 3y ago
    Energy/material costs and money-printing are not unrelated, in that the latter is being used to paper over extremely worrying trends in the former. 2008-induced QE and covid-induced direct payments are both can-kicking strategies which do not address underlying problems, just temporarily plug leaks in the facade.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      And temporarily plugging leaks was exactly the right thing to do during a temporary world-wide crisis like COVID.

danielvaughn 3y ago

My salary is $25k higher than it was in 2021 and I have less disposable income than I did back then. It's insane.

mydriasis 3y ago
I hear you. It's tough out there, getting tougher all the time. Fingers crossed that the rate-racking the fed is doing helps slow it down a bit. I talk to my family about it all the time -- we're very lucky where we're at. We wonder how many people are managing to keep food on the table with these prices and the inability of wages to keep up. My mom works at a donation center focused on veterans, and they give out food several weekends out of the month. They're breaking records for visitors every month now.
- landemva 3y ago
  > Fingers crossed that the rate-racking the fed is doing helps slow it down a bit. Along with finger crossing and hoping, we could look for causes of price increases, and then force the politicians to end the inflation-inducing military conflict in eastern Europe.
  - ye-olde-sysrq 3y ago
    If this inflation is the price of liberty for Ukrainians and the price of independence from a dictator for Western Europe, then I am willing to pay that, personally. I just don't think Ukraine explains that much beyond natural gas prices going up, as far as I'm aware, and even that I suspect is limited to Europe. (I am in the US).
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      I agree with you that it would be worth it, but it's also definitely not what caused inflation.
      - landemva 3y ago
        Historical timeline of USA central bank rates and world events: March 3, 2020 -50 basis points March 14-15, 2020 -100 basis points Feb 19 2022 Zelensky speech puts in question 1994 nuclear disarmament agreement. Feb 20 2022 VP Harris in Munich encourages Ukraine entry into NATO, "So I respect President Zelensky’s desire to be a member of NATO." Feb 24 2022 Russia in to Ukraine. March 15-16 2022 rate increases begin. Federal Reserve recognized war. Zelensky nuclear ambitions speech translated: https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-security-conference/ https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-... Harris talking about Ukraine joining NATO: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/02/20/remarks-by-vice-president-harris-in-press-gaggle-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...
        frumper 3y ago
        Something can happen in the world and not be the causation for the other. It's totally possible.
        landemva 3y ago
        It is possible. What other event caused Federal Reserve to suddenly raise rates in March 2022?
        ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        (somewhat) interesting question, it might be worth discussing sometime anyways, do you have any evidence for the causality you suggested here? so far it hasn't been very convincing keep in mind, as you make your case, that most posters here are smart enough to not fall for a "post hoc ergo proper hoc" fallacy
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    unfortunately, no matter how much we want the conflict to end, it won't without the commitment of russia to end it, which means withdrawing their Ukrainian-toddler-raping troops* from Ukraine and ending their attempted 3rd russian genocide of Ukrainians** * - per a UN investigation ** - with the Holodomor and the deportation of the Crimean Tatars being at least 2 previous russian genocides of Ukrainians
- bluSCALE4 3y ago
  What worries me is this "we're lucky" sentiment is only temporary. In my situation, if my pay drastically changes due to emerging technologies causing future job cuts and order of magnitude competition over jobs, "we're lucky" can turn to "we're worried" in a year and "we're screwed" in 10... if "we're lucky". Compound that with property taxes: I just heard a neighbors condo's taxes go up from 8k to 18k in a single year.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    > Compound that with property taxes: I just heard a neighbors condo's taxes go up from 8k to 18k in a single year. This must be a special case of not having the correct assessed value, or an error and they are including condo association costs in their property tax. Even at a 3% property tax rate, which very few Americans have, a $10k increase means a $333k increase in assessed value for a condo. 1% to 2% property tax rates are more likely, which would mean a ~$667k increase in assessed value.
  - scruple 3y ago
    In my own situation, it's gone from "we're blessed" to "our kids generation is fucked" in the span of 5 years.
- taylodl 3y ago
  If you think this is bad then you should have been around in the mid-70's to early 80's after Nixon unilaterally bended Bretton Woods and threw the global monetary regime into chaos. I still remember mortgage rates of 12% to 15% and lots of young families being shut out of the housing market - at the same time apartment complexes were being built everywhere. Sound familiar?
  - hnhmp 3y ago
    The idea that it was worse back then has been thoroughly debunked. The unfortunate truth is that property values have soared (due to lack of supply), inflation continues as it does, and wages have totally stagnated. Those combined together mean that however bad it was for families back then (and I'm sure it was bad! Housing insecurity is something folks should never have to face, and I'm sorry you went through it too), it's just worse for people today, full stop. This isn't the oppression olympics, I don't want to tell you that you didn't have it bad, or anything like that. But it just sucks to be facing a very real problem today and have people incorrectly tell you that it was worse before. Not only does the existence of a problem 50 years ago not negate the existence of a problem today, but people in politics and on the internet want to tell us that it's not as bad as we think it is, when in reality it's much worse than they think.
    - taylodl 3y ago
      You're only looking at one aspect - housing. What's missing in this analysis is that fuel costs had risen 400% in a very short time frame, and in an economy that was much more fuel-dependent than it is today. Imagine if gasoline were to rapidly rise to over $12 per gallon? Natural gas was even worse, we had actual shortages, so you can imagine what that did to the market. I still remember the president of the United States addressing the nation from the Oval Office wearing a cardigan to set an example that it was okay to turn the thermostat down and bundle up. The speed limit on the interstate had been dropped to 55 MPH to encourage people to driver slower and conserve fuel. Housing was just yet another problem at the time. The problem with housing today is an amazing lack of foresight from our so-called leaders then. Everyone accommodated the Boomers (I'm Gen X). They didn't have enough houses for the Boomers - let alone the kids the Boomers would have (the Millennials) who would be living as adults at the same time as their parents. There was a rash of home-building in the 40's, 50's and 60's, and then it slowed way down, never to reach those levels again. Meanwhile, advances in healthcare increased people's lifetimes, exacerbating a housing shortage that all the experts were warning about even back in the 70's and yet nothing was being done about. I say all this to say I see the same thing happening with the climate "debate" today. We know what's coming. What know what the economic impacts are going to be. But we sit and equivocate and do nothing. If you think today's housing crises is bad, wait until you see what hits us in 30-40 years! Funny too how the ever-vaunted market failed to solve the housing issue...but that's a story for another time.
argentinian 3y ago
That's what always happened in Argentina. Government prints money so they have more to spend, but it's not without consequences. Then they blame businessmen for the rising prices, and uneducated voters believe them. And now with the US media promoting insane ideas like 'modern monetary theory' it may become more common.
- ptero 3y ago
  I believe this setup works (until it does not, but does work for a very long time) in Argentina in large part due to currency controls making it hard to purchase dollars. Should the same high-inflation state come to the US it would be a very interesting state (technically interesting, not meaning this in a nasty "I plan to watch this show from the outside" way). With current opportunities to easily move between the dollar, other currencies, gold, BTC, etc. should the high (20+%) inflation expectation become entrenched the government will find it hard to force people to buy dollars. When anyone can move a large hedging sum from dollar to Swiss franc or Norwegian krone, forcing the local citizenry to buy rapidly depreciated fiat is virtually impossible. My 2c.
  - argentinian 3y ago
    Democtrats may be already evaluating the benefits of currency controls.
    - ptero 3y ago
      I am sure they are, but with the options built up during the globalization it will be much, much harder than in Argentina (Cuba, Soviet Union, etc.) in the last century. Not impossible, but very hard. Also, after three decades of globalization currency controls will hit virtually every business, so this will likely be broadly unpopular. Again, not impossible, but I personally view it as very unlikely without dictatorial powers held by one, or a very few, strong individuals. But we shall see...

rmbyrro 3y ago

Exactly. People are only trying to keep up with inflation created by easing monetary policy and supply-demand imbalances during COVID and post-COVID.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
People keep repeating this like this is a self-obvious truth. Both of these factors are long gone. IMO, there are two major components to inflation. 1. The war in Ukraine spiked energy and food prices. People don't fully grasp how fundamental energy costs are to prices. Energy costs are X1% of the cost of a good, X2% of the cost of the parts in that good, X3% of the cost of the materials in those parts, X4% of the factory and tooling, X5% for transport of all those goods, parts, materials, tooling, et cetera. It takes a while to ripple through. The energy cost spike in 1973 caused the inflation crisis of the late 70s and early 80s IMO. 2. Housing, which is a systemic issue that far predates COVID.
- lapcat 3y ago
  You forgot corporate profiteering. Even the Wall Street Journal now admits it: https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-is-inflation-so-sticky-it-could-be-corporate-profits-b78d90b7 https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-is-inflation-so-sticky-it-c...
- walleeee 3y ago
  Energy/material costs and money-printing are not unrelated, in that the latter is being used to paper over extremely worrying trends in the former. 2008-induced QE and covid-induced direct payments are both can-kicking strategies which do not address underlying problems, just temporarily plug leaks in the facade.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    And temporarily plugging leaks was exactly the right thing to do during a temporary world-wide crisis like COVID.