6 ms·

Are we in agreement that social media is bad for us or not? I'm a little confused as to why anyone is still using it, why people are still defending it, why we

• hk__2 3y ago
  > What are the motivations for people to be daily activate users these days? Honestly just curious. Why do you go on HN? That may be the beginning of a response since HN is a social platform.
  • BoxFour 3y ago
    An excellent query, as it neatly encapsulates the only response to the original post. People tend to view every other social media platform negatively except for the one they personally use, and they're prepared to staunchly defend their choice no matter what.
    • Robotbeat 3y ago
      On the contrary, I’m always hating on Twitter, which is my primary social platform. I’m just addicted to it.
      • catchnear4321 3y ago
        one of the biggest reasons it persists, even after all of the chaos. a fair amount of the customers would have to go to rehab to successfully leave. that isn’t judgement. just facts.
    • pkdpic 3y ago
      I have honestly never met anyone who would defend hacker news or reddit as a good use of their time or pressure their peers to use the platforms more. Are we saying that all social media platforms are the same? Are there teams working on the hacker news platform trying to tweak the algorithms to drive addictive user engagement? Is the sorting algorithm not a matter of public record? Correction to my original comment, I am asking about Instagram / Facebook / Twitter. I know why I (maybe we) go on HN and its because Im bored and weak and Ive never felt manipulated by it or addicted to it or wanted to be on it for more than 15 minutes. I have chores I should be doing.
      • BoxFour 3y ago
        > I honestly haven't come across anyone who would advocate for Hacker News or Reddit as a productive use of their time. Really? I actually encounter such individuals quite frequently, even if it's more subtly expressed through statements like, "Hey, did you catch that discussion on HN about X? You should check it out!" > Are we implying that all social media platforms are indistinguishable? In the sense that they all harbor pseudonymous individuals often baiting one another and getting embroiled in futile online conflicts aimed solely at boosting egos (even our current exchange is not exempt from this and I am guilty of it)? Yes, I believe that's a valid assessment of virtually every social media platform.
      • michalf6 3y ago
        Me and my friend found our jobs through HN, and the HN common cultural context helped me in that job. It's definitely a value add for my life
      • hk__2 3y ago
        > Are we saying that all social media platforms are the same? Nobody is saying that. > Are there teams working on the hacker news platform trying to tweak the algorithms to drive addictive user engagement? Driving addictive user engagement has little to do with being a social media platform, see Netflix for example. > Is the sorting algorithm not a matter of public record? Again, that’s irrelevant. Twitter is more open-source than HN.
      • probablynish 3y ago
        > I am asking about Instagram / Facebook / Twitter. I find Instagram pretty valuable, and I've tried to create a habit of going on it every day or two for 15-20 minutes (I have to exert effort to do this). I have close friends now scattered around the world, and one of the best ways (per unit of time) for me to keep up with everyone is to check out their posts/stories, send some kind of DM commenting on their activities, and post a story of my own. Then when we do end up talking on the phone I feel like I know what they've been up to.
    • kzrdude 3y ago
      I'm a lot more fond of forums (like this) than media like twitter, facebook, instagram where it's more about "maintaining a persona". On a forum it would theoretically be about conversation and almost never about the person per se.
      • codr7 3y ago
        Oh, I see that game being played quite a lot around here as well.
      • Martinussen 3y ago
        If you think HN is less fake than Facebook as far as personas goes that is probably more about your Facebook feed - HN is more homogeneous, certainly, but you don't become cultured because you've build a country club and everyone puts on a fancy accents inside. On a side note, HN is the place person matters more than anywhere I can think of except for YouTube. Is it possible you feel like that because it's closer to your person/ingroup?
        • kzrdude 3y ago
          Do you read comments differently depending on which username posts them? I usually don't. That's the kind of personal I mean.
          • zerbinxx 3y ago
            I certainly don’t, and hacker news has a certain conversational feng shui that leads to most posts reading a lot like everyone else’s. If you read through the top 10 comments on any post, the style will be extremely similar on 9+ of them, which is nice because that way you don’t end up with anyone caring who the other guy is, anyway, you just want to read what people have to say
    • UhUhUhUh 3y ago
      I tend to view all platforms negatively because I am afraid that all are a virtual substitute to actual encounters and debates. They soothe a real need and desire with a sort of hallucinatory satisfaction (human beings are very good at that). Which does tend to create a cycle of addiction or dependency. So by making life more bearable, they also validate and consolidate life as it is. So yeah...
      • BoxFour 3y ago
        Numerous individuals grapple with contradictory sentiments regarding their engagement with social media, yet persist in using it. Hacker News isn't an exception in the realm of social media platforms subject to such considerations. It appears that a significant number within this community possess a certain blind spot, often exerting substantial effort to delineate why their favored social media stands apart in some manner from the rest.
      • hk__2 3y ago
        > I tend to view all platforms negatively because I am afraid that all are a virtual substitute to actual encounters and debates. They are not virtual substitute, they are actual debates but through a medium different than voice. Of course, the experience is different, but that doesn’t make it "virtual", just like going to the cinema is not a "virtual substitute" to live theater.
  • laputan_machine 3y ago
    Is it the same? There are gamification tactics I'm not a fan of (voting system), but I find the level of discourse on HN to generally be a much higher quality than say, twitter, facebook, instagram (e.g. what we mean when we say social network).
  • thinkingtoilet 3y ago
    I would argue it is not a social media platform for a few very important reasons. - No infinite scroll - No algorithmic content recommendations (ex: if you like X, you'll like Y) - Highly targeted and moderated content - The user is not the product (this is maybe the most important and has far reaching consequences)
    • michalf6 3y ago
      The user absolutely is the product here, HN is a marketing and recruitment funnel to YC and YC-backed companies.
      • thinkingtoilet 3y ago
        I could be wrong, but I don't believe HN relies on selling user data like Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok does. That is what I meant by that. That dramatically changes the incentives and therefor the experience.
    • supazek 3y ago
      To me, having a profile with some kind of “like” system (karma) makes it social media. The main incentive is to gain upvotes which dramatically changes the way in which users write their thoughts. Even though there’s nothing tying the “real me” to my profile, I still know it’s me and am incentivized to make posts that will garner more votes. SO, Quora, forums etc all count. Only when people are truly anonymous, with no “score” being kept do I believe it doesn’t count.
    • jonplackett 3y ago
      And most important of all - no push notifications trying to drag you back in all the time.
    • taude 3y ago
      It does have paging that you can click through to get more articles. I know it's "different" but for someone like a HACKER, pressing the link vs a swipe probably has little differences. It does use "popularity" and it's gamed - maybe not algorithmic content, but it's still promoting content. It uses Social media game to upvote/downvote comments, etc. which impacts people's behaviors and group think. There's such a wide variety of articles on here, and a pretty wide variety of people, too. I'm always suprised by how many non-programmer types are really around here. The user's not the product? We'll there is targeting of Job ads and such on here for Y-Combinator companies. Probably other things that you just don't know about. It's just a niche social media company that you happen to really align with. But so are certain Reddits for people, etc. The one thing it doesn't have here is the distractions with other links (I'm
• vorpalhex 3y ago
  I was at a live show last night. Great time, lots of energy. All the people in front of me, who were there with friends.. kept pulling out their phones. Tiktok, instagram. Not to grab photos (which is at least interacting with the event sorta) but just.. scrolling. Not talking to their friends, not enjoying the show, just.. social media. It seems to be that the social media usage is some sort of crutch. Like meth or alcohol abuse, it's a bad solution to a problem.
  • hk__2 3y ago
    > Like meth or alcohol abuse, it's a bad solution to a problem. Which other solution do you think of for someone who’s bored at an event, can’t go out, and doesn’t have anything more in their pocket than their phone? I don’t know what was the exact situation, but I would be wary about writing conclusions based on something I saw and don’t understand.
    • vorpalhex 3y ago
      Given that they were all wearing shirts for the thing.. I don't think it was a case of being bored or not wanting to be there. Also they were literally in a big group of friends - talk to your friend. Obviously I didn't interview a stranger during a live show, but I suspect if I had asked them they would not have realized they had done it. I see this behavior at bars and such too. Maybe next time I will just be rude for a bit and ask someone about it (though I would be surprised to get much of a real answer).
      • hgsgm 3y ago
        Well you can't have a conversation at a loud live show, unless you use a sign language, but even that has visual challenges.
  • greenhearth 3y ago
    I was just at a show too and this is what I saw as well. I noticed that the people who did this were all younger kids. It boggled my mind.
• gnz11 3y ago
  Same questions apply to this site then, no? I would think so.
• azangru 3y ago
  Would you consider Hacker News a social medium? I keep using Hacker News, and follow several people on Mastodon or Twitter in read-only mode (don't have an account) to keep up on the news about web development.
• NoraCodes 3y ago
  I am a DAU of the Fediverse because it's an easy way to see what my friends are up to and tell them what I'm up to. I also use it to follow "celebrities", such as they are, in the Rust world. By contrast, I have a Twitter account, but I only log in once every few weeks to check for messages. I think there is a meaningful distinction between corporate social media and volunteer-run platforms like the Fediverse.
• ethanbond 3y ago
  The “motivation” is just the symptom of losing a battle that a normal person can’t be expected to win anyway. We’ve all been dropped into the most well-funded and technologically sophisticated casino of all time, built and maintained by armies of engineers and ML models that continuously optimize a ~infinite number of useless but highly varied casino games that are then made accessible to you 24/7 via a device in your pocket. Also all your friends are in the casino and even the ones who hate it are actually having a pretty good time. They are more than happy to send you links/offer you a seat at their particular game of choice (such as these comments on HN). Normal people have way too many everyday concerns to be (successfully) engaging in a 24/7 battle-for-attention against the most advanced attention-grabbing systems ever created. It’s so ludicrously asymmetric it seems unfair to even ascribe “motivation” to users, but the motivation for the casino designers is pretty obvious.
• CM30 3y ago
  Same reason people watch cable news. Because they want to be informed, and (likely incorrectly) believe seeing a non stop stream of information means they're more informed about what's going on in the world. Heck, the journalists themselves are absolutely hooked on social media, to the point they almost can't function without it.
• gravitate 3y ago
  > What are the motivations for people to be daily activate users these days? The sincere belief that real town squares don't matter and that the real ones are only online now. This is brought on by propaganda in the media that Twitter, etc is where things 'happen' now and real life should be shunned at every instance. 'If it's not online, it doesn't exist' mentality.
• TZubiri 3y ago
  Yet here we are
• jonplackett 3y ago
  I believe It’s called ‘addiction’
• IAmGraydon 3y ago
  Social media is a form of high speed communication. That, in and of itself, it's not "bad". What makes it have a negative impact on society are the algorithms that have been put in place to sculpt what users experience on the platform. It brings together users with similar (sometimes irrational) thought patterns. This creates echo chambers and the illusion that a person's illogical beliefs are held by a majority of people. That can lead to polarization and galvanization of extremist beliefs. That is a very bad thing indeed. On a more superficial level, it often creates a culture of comparison, where people judge themselves in relation to the lifestyles they see others apparently living. I use the word "apparently" because most of those lifestyles are complete fiction. None the less, that comparison can convince a person that they're "losing at life", which can lead to depression and all of the problems that come with it. Why are people using it? To satisfy the innate human need for social connection.
• taude 3y ago
  It's going to depend how you us it. I waste far more time on Hacker News, which has a similar dubious added value... I like to keep up with my friends and see what they're up to, and we trade text messages through our Stories, etc. It's something I can do during a couple poop breaks in the day, so I don't really think of it as being "bad" for me. Maybe I'm the only one using it who isn't addicted?
• boredemployee 3y ago
  For me, the problem begins when your whole profession depends on it, then you get locked in. I just can't get gigs for my side project sending emails or asking people to join my "blog". But I completely agree, I'd prefer delete all my accounts.
• RIMR 3y ago
  It's because it's addictive, and we live in a capitalist free society. Bad things can be stimulating, fun, and addictive, and so people will still partake in those things to their own deficit. We can't just ban things because they have negative consequences, cigarettes literally kill people and they're still in every corner store, but this is especially an issue when it comes to mediums for free speech. The companies responsible have no incentive to prevent harm, because what they are doing is profitable. The more addictive their product is, the more money they make.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• zzzeek 3y ago
  we are programmers and need to occupy our brains while test suites run / compilers compile / waiting for coworkers to respond to your slack message
• akira2501 3y ago
  No. You're confused because you're attempting to take an entire technology and then view it through a binary lens of "good" or "bad." This is impractical and not at all useful. I'm sorry your use of social media is filled with such negativity. Other people are using to connect over their hobbies, to collaborate and to do work together, to do research, to put together broadcasts, to have this very conversation we're having right now. Social media is exactly like all other human activities. It's a reflection of the sum total of humanity. It has both good and bad aspects to it. It is a part of us because we built it.
  • hot_gril 3y ago
    Modern social media is designed to be addictive. Addiction means the habit far outlives its usefulness, to the point where it's detrimental. Most human activities aren't like this. You can get addicted to just about anything, but a few things are way more common. Social media can also be used for good reasons like you described, and that's how I use it too. I still think it's a net negative on society, though. It's just too good at taking away human interaction and doesn't provide enough in return, the way most people are using it.
• conductr 3y ago
  For context, after decades of research and stuff a lot of people still are regularly sucking all kinds of burning materials containing who knows what directly into their lungs. People aren’t always making great choices even when they’re the victims of the consequences. Also, people just hate, HATE being bored. It has got to a point where boredom makes people anxious and upset.
• hot_gril 3y ago
  > What are the motivations for people to be daily activate users these days? Honestly just curious. It's useful so you stay connected with friends who don't necessarily live next to you. That's the motivation for at least monthly active, maybe daily if you've got a lot going on. Also, when I was in college (2014-2018), Facebook was extra useful because it was the default way of inviting many people to an event, and there were also really active pages like "free and for sale." It was also a directory for classmates/housemates to contact you if they didn't already have your number, which was an occasional bacon-saver. Nowadays FB Messenger is still ubiquitous enough that at least you can invite ~20 people via a group chat without having to deal with SMS (cause one guy will always have Android). Of course, you could easily use it to kill time scrolling through random stuff from strangers and possibly go overboard to the point of it being mentally impactful, same how daily video game addiction is different from playing an hour per week. I'm also not going to ignore how social media is more addictive than a lot of other things.
• gretch 3y ago
  > I'm a little confused as to why anyone is still using it, why people are still defending it Coca Cola is also bad for you but most people will still drink one at a picnic. If you drink coke everyday, that’s probably bad for you, but swearing off coke (or the govt banning coke) would be wtf on the other end of the spectrum. Treat social media like coca cola
• isitmadeofglass 3y ago
  [dead]