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This feels like that meme where raccoons are telling people to leave their trash outside so they can ransack the trash cans. Of course recruiters would say thi

This feels like that meme where raccoons are telling people to leave their trash outside so they can ransack the trash cans. Of course recruiters would say this. If you are so naive that you'd buy into this narrative I have a submarine adventure for sale you might be interested in. I will caveat this bad and misleading advice with something more useful: You never know which recruiters will actually have reasonable work for you. Most do NOT deserve even a microsecond of your time. But up front, they will all look the same. I got one of the most meaningful jobs of my life through a recruiter. I hate them to my bone because they do not have my interest in mind, and they will be very deceptive and dishonest about what's going on. They are not there to be friendly, nice or care about you. They are a repetitional splash guard for the awful, inhuman and socially toxic behavior that corporate values celebrate. The recruiter that got me a good job was honest and up-front, he wasn't playing games. The key is dealing with reasonable people, and I think the recruiter industry just attracts a lot of people who are prone to "selling" things regardless of merit. To put my response to the title / article in a more poetic format Recruiters are used car salesmen, just because you can smell their sleeze a mile away doesn't mean there isn't a gem barn find on the lot. YMMV.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
Recruiters would say to sent a copy-paste template response back and ask for 50% over your current income? Love to meet them, in that case. TBH your advice can apply to any part of life: most of it sucks but you get some gems. It's more of a philosophical question on how much of that you want to dig , and some are fine getting dirty to find that gem. even if it's a 1%. Me personally, I'm content at my salary level and don't need to minmax like the article, especially since I have a very specfic career line in mind.
- dirtybirdnj 3y ago
  > Recruiters would say to sent a copy-paste template response back and ask for 50% over your current income? Love to meet them, in that case. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. > TBH your advice can apply to any part of life: most of it sucks but you get some gems. I agree and to counterpoint my previous argument, compassion for these recruiters is important because discounting them all cuts you off from opportunity. All I can say to that is be open to things outside of your expectations, but also don't allow people to violate your values. You have to speak up for yourself, with self respect and dignity. These people are trained to "make it happen" not to ensure long-term success. I think for me it's a "I've been burned and I have difficulty trusting" situation. I find that the incentives for this industry do not align with the people it serves. Who it serves is the real customer, and the money serves the customer. Who's the customer, the employee or the employer? The system is working as expected, it's not made for me.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. too good to ask for a salary that you know will throw off most recruiters? HN loves to boast about those kinds of hard balls. >Who's the customer, the employee or the employer? The system is working as expected, it's not made for me. I never had it work for me, never thought it did. But yeah, that's my entire life. Personal life aside, I just bear with it until I don't have to anymore. And I have at least a decade more to bear. I don't want to be hired and laid off less than a year later, I don't want to blindly throw out apps into a job portal that aren't checked over half the time, I don't want to have to filter through a bunch of spam recruiters to find leads, and I don't want to have to do 5 rounds of interviews over a month only to get an automated rejection letter with zero feedback. I don't want to be 3 interviews deep before revealing that a "flexible hybrid role" in fact required me to move across the country for full in-office work. But I also know I'm not some crackshot charismatic programmer who worked for FAANG who has buddies that can drag me into the next big thing. Nor am I close to retiring or even breaking off with current finances. I'm mostly alone, and I'm at best average. So I gotta jump through the average hoops until I can secure myself away from corporate.
    - dirtybirdnj 3y ago
      I'm in a similar boat. I am trying to make things move forward as best I can. Unfortunately having self respect and not being willing to let people walk on me socially is career limiting. I guess what pisses me off most is what I'll call the metadishonesty of it all. It's a system of exploitation we are supposed to be happy to be abused by. We are looked at as heretics for suggesting it doesn't need to be as awful as it is. Yet we continue to subject ourselves to it despite knowing it wont work because what the fuck else are you supposed to do? I have an answer, but it's not a satisfying one. I'm working on making fishing lures. I found a widget I can own 100% myself and I'm trying to carve out a little e-commerce 1 man show. I hope it works. I'm working the most soul crushingly corporate job I've ever had and it takes every ounce of energy I have to tolerate that. When I am not stressing about my job I have to find a way to use what little energy I have left (none) to keep building the technical things I wish I could do at work. Even the great jobs I had were rampant with inequality and unfairness. I looked past it because I was enjoying what I did. It always sucks on the outside there's no warmth away from the fire. Fire is still dangerous and you can be pushed into the firepit for the benefit of others. This doesn't seem to matter when you are alone in the cold.
znpy 3y ago
> I hate them to my bone because they do not have my interest in mind, and they will be very deceptive and dishonest about what's going on. They are not there to be friendly, nice or care about you. They are a repetitional splash guard for the awful, inhuman and socially toxic behavior that corporate values celebrate. It's not a case that "recruiter" is the politically correct version of "head hunter".
- dirtybirdnj 3y ago
  That really is a more honest and appropriate term for the behavior I'm describing.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

Recruiters would say to sent a copy-paste template response back and ask for 50% over your current income? Love to meet them, in that case. TBH your advice can apply to any part of life: most of it sucks but you get some gems. It's more of a philosophical question on how much of that you want to dig , and some are fine getting dirty to find that gem. even if it's a 1%. Me personally, I'm content at my salary level and don't need to minmax like the article, especially since I have a very specfic career line in mind.

dirtybirdnj 3y ago
> Recruiters would say to sent a copy-paste template response back and ask for 50% over your current income? Love to meet them, in that case. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. > TBH your advice can apply to any part of life: most of it sucks but you get some gems. I agree and to counterpoint my previous argument, compassion for these recruiters is important because discounting them all cuts you off from opportunity. All I can say to that is be open to things outside of your expectations, but also don't allow people to violate your values. You have to speak up for yourself, with self respect and dignity. These people are trained to "make it happen" not to ensure long-term success. I think for me it's a "I've been burned and I have difficulty trusting" situation. I find that the incentives for this industry do not align with the people it serves. Who it serves is the real customer, and the money serves the customer. Who's the customer, the employee or the employer? The system is working as expected, it's not made for me.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. too good to ask for a salary that you know will throw off most recruiters? HN loves to boast about those kinds of hard balls. >Who's the customer, the employee or the employer? The system is working as expected, it's not made for me. I never had it work for me, never thought it did. But yeah, that's my entire life. Personal life aside, I just bear with it until I don't have to anymore. And I have at least a decade more to bear. I don't want to be hired and laid off less than a year later, I don't want to blindly throw out apps into a job portal that aren't checked over half the time, I don't want to have to filter through a bunch of spam recruiters to find leads, and I don't want to have to do 5 rounds of interviews over a month only to get an automated rejection letter with zero feedback. I don't want to be 3 interviews deep before revealing that a "flexible hybrid role" in fact required me to move across the country for full in-office work. But I also know I'm not some crackshot charismatic programmer who worked for FAANG who has buddies that can drag me into the next big thing. Nor am I close to retiring or even breaking off with current finances. I'm mostly alone, and I'm at best average. So I gotta jump through the average hoops until I can secure myself away from corporate.
  - dirtybirdnj 3y ago
    I'm in a similar boat. I am trying to make things move forward as best I can. Unfortunately having self respect and not being willing to let people walk on me socially is career limiting. I guess what pisses me off most is what I'll call the metadishonesty of it all. It's a system of exploitation we are supposed to be happy to be abused by. We are looked at as heretics for suggesting it doesn't need to be as awful as it is. Yet we continue to subject ourselves to it despite knowing it wont work because what the fuck else are you supposed to do? I have an answer, but it's not a satisfying one. I'm working on making fishing lures. I found a widget I can own 100% myself and I'm trying to carve out a little e-commerce 1 man show. I hope it works. I'm working the most soul crushingly corporate job I've ever had and it takes every ounce of energy I have to tolerate that. When I am not stressing about my job I have to find a way to use what little energy I have left (none) to keep building the technical things I wish I could do at work. Even the great jobs I had were rampant with inequality and unfairness. I looked past it because I was enjoying what I did. It always sucks on the outside there's no warmth away from the fire. Fire is still dangerous and you can be pushed into the firepit for the benefit of others. This doesn't seem to matter when you are alone in the cold.

znpy 3y ago

> I hate them to my bone because they do not have my interest in mind, and they will be very deceptive and dishonest about what's going on. They are not there to be friendly, nice or care about you. They are a repetitional splash guard for the awful, inhuman and socially toxic behavior that corporate values celebrate. It's not a case that "recruiter" is the politically correct version of "head hunter".

dirtybirdnj 3y ago
That really is a more honest and appropriate term for the behavior I'm describing.