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Claim: it is difficult to find the manual release handle for the doors My reality: every single passenger who had never been on a Tesla before always uses the

Claim: it is difficult to find the manual release handle for the doors My reality: every single passenger who had never been on a Tesla before always uses the manual release handle instead of the right button, and I get a warning message on the screen and the risk of breaking the window glass. Source: Tesla M3 owner

vGPU 3y ago
The first time I was ever in an m3 I did precisely that.
lawn 3y ago
Sample size: Very few Type of evidence: Anecdotal Statistical relevance: Tiny
- darkwater 3y ago
  Obviously, it was implied by "My reality". Anyway the only real safety issue I can see is that rear doors doesn't have such a system, but I guess the theory here is that there should never be a case when someone is left alone in the rear seat (i.e. Tesla's "dog mode" explicitly tells you that it's just for pet, not meant for humans)
  - earnestzombie2 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - lawn 3y ago
    Is it that hard to imagine that kids might have trouble finding the switch? Or that the person in the front are rendered unconscious and now the persons at the back are stuck?
    - darkwater 3y ago
      I think you are mixing scenarios here. The initial scenario was that the car had no power (and anyway locks are powered by the LV battery, not the HV one), which is not a safety emergency situation. In that case, the person driving can get out of the car using the mechanical lever and open thee rear door(s) using the normal external handle. In case of an emergency, where no power is available anymore, well ,we are most probably talking about a serious enough car crash. In that case, AFAIK, Tesla - just like any other car manufacturer out there - has a system that trigger airbags and unlock doors when detecting a crash. But yet in that case, the ones in the rear seats has less chances to escape from the car, that's probably true.
- phkahler 3y ago
  Type of evidence: first hand account. That's better. The singular of data is not anecdote. People make this "mistake" in order to dismiss or minimize someone's experience.
  - lawn 3y ago
    You're right. Of course, you labeling it as a "mistake" is also made in order to dismiss or minimize my comment, when it was in fact an honest mistake.
  - xracy 3y ago
    I find people are much more likely to over key on their first-hand accounts than to rightly consider how small their sample-size is. So in terms of common "mistakes" I see, I think yours is the larger. "First hand accounts" are never unbiased, and are rarely well-collected data. I'm not saying I don't believe OP here, I think this is probably the exception to the rule, but I think you're just wrong. The plural of anecdote isn't data, because it hasn't been collected in any meaningfully standardizable way. Edit: If you need evidence this is clearly an anecdote: > every single passenger who had never been on a Tesla before always uses the manual release handle instead of the right button, and I get a warning message on the screen and the risk of breaking the window glass. OP is probably assuming that everyone who gets it correct has been in a Tesla before. But given the 2 options and how close they are together, I'd be pretty surprised if no one had gotten this correct on their first try. One of the buttons is much more visible than the other. So either OP's sample size is small enough to be uninteresting, or hyperbole. Either way, it's not data, and it's wrong to treat it as such. What it does tell us, is that this probably isn't a problem for everyone but that hardly matters to the people who can't figure out how to get out of a Model 3 right now.
  - frumper 3y ago
    Data collection method: journalist seeking out personal anecdotes that match the story they want to tell.
richbell 3y ago
Claim: every single passenger in your Tesla has found the manual release without issue, so it must not be an issue. Reality: some people are not able to find the manual release handle, which is a safety issue.
- earnestzombie2 3y ago
  [flagged]
- addandsubtract 3y ago
  Reality: getting safety instructions on every flight on how to put on a life vest and pull a big red lever to open a door.
  - richbell 3y ago
    People do not necessarily act rationally in emergency situations. That is why it's important to design things in a way that's obvious and avoids unexpected obstacles (e.g., the door doesn't open anymore and you need to use a secondary handle). For example, sliding doors usually have clearly marked text on them saying "in event of power loss, push to open".
nelsonic 3y ago
Same experience for us. Every guest that rides in our Tesla M3 for the first time reaches for the manual release which works every time but gives a warning. I remember getting trapped in an ICE Jaguar as a kid because the battery died ... Central locking was electric and so were the windows that was scary; parents panicking ... we had to drive to a garage and someone hooked the car up to jump leads so we could get out.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  This sounds like British Leyland. I had a ‘68 Triumph 2000 Mark 1 with a horn that would sound sometimes when I turned left. Neither mechanic or auto-electricians could fix it. Death glares from pedestrians were a normal part of my life.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>uses the manual release handle instead of the right button, and I get a warning message on the screen and the risk of breaking the window glass. Is there a technical limitation on why the manual release can't also mechanically slide down the window slightly when pulled to not damage the glass? Also, why did Tesla need to use two obscure looking buttons with no labels on them to open the door[1], when many cars use the same obvious leaver for both cases: pull on it lightly to engage the electronic un-lock, pull on it again with more force to engage the mechanical un-lock. So simple, so elegant. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu-tJc-BgaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu-tJc-BgaI
- frumper 3y ago
  Most cars have a window frame and don’t need to worry about lowering the window. There are plenty of other cars that engage the window down on the lever though, so no, it’s not a technical issue. The only issue I can think of if you just open and push the door quickly then it could cause damage and the Tesla can lower the window before it opens when you use the button option.
mbreese 3y ago
I don’t think I’ve had anyone in my M3 ever find that release switch unless I pointed it out to them. Usually people who are in my car and haven’t been in a Tesla before are so freaked out about breaking something that they just ask what button to push.
Deebs12 3y ago
I am also a M3 owner. I also had the experience of every NEW rider using the manual release unless I warned them not to. My guess is the "trapped" people are ones who are very used to using the small button, and have forgotten about the manual release and it never occurs to them since they never have to use it. I'm not sure how that's possible, but it's my guess.
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
> every single passenger who had never been on a Tesla before always uses the manual release handle instead of the right button That sounds like a nice anti-pattern design. Be different for sake of being different.
DemocracyFTW2 3y ago
every detail of this screams "bad design"

vGPU 3y ago

The first time I was ever in an m3 I did precisely that.

lawn 3y ago

Sample size: Very few Type of evidence: Anecdotal Statistical relevance: Tiny

darkwater 3y ago
Obviously, it was implied by "My reality". Anyway the only real safety issue I can see is that rear doors doesn't have such a system, but I guess the theory here is that there should never be a case when someone is left alone in the rear seat (i.e. Tesla's "dog mode" explicitly tells you that it's just for pet, not meant for humans)
- earnestzombie2 3y ago
  [flagged]
- lawn 3y ago
  Is it that hard to imagine that kids might have trouble finding the switch? Or that the person in the front are rendered unconscious and now the persons at the back are stuck?
  - darkwater 3y ago
    I think you are mixing scenarios here. The initial scenario was that the car had no power (and anyway locks are powered by the LV battery, not the HV one), which is not a safety emergency situation. In that case, the person driving can get out of the car using the mechanical lever and open thee rear door(s) using the normal external handle. In case of an emergency, where no power is available anymore, well ,we are most probably talking about a serious enough car crash. In that case, AFAIK, Tesla - just like any other car manufacturer out there - has a system that trigger airbags and unlock doors when detecting a crash. But yet in that case, the ones in the rear seats has less chances to escape from the car, that's probably true.
phkahler 3y ago
Type of evidence: first hand account. That's better. The singular of data is not anecdote. People make this "mistake" in order to dismiss or minimize someone's experience.
- lawn 3y ago
  You're right. Of course, you labeling it as a "mistake" is also made in order to dismiss or minimize my comment, when it was in fact an honest mistake.
- xracy 3y ago
  I find people are much more likely to over key on their first-hand accounts than to rightly consider how small their sample-size is. So in terms of common "mistakes" I see, I think yours is the larger. "First hand accounts" are never unbiased, and are rarely well-collected data. I'm not saying I don't believe OP here, I think this is probably the exception to the rule, but I think you're just wrong. The plural of anecdote isn't data, because it hasn't been collected in any meaningfully standardizable way. Edit: If you need evidence this is clearly an anecdote: > every single passenger who had never been on a Tesla before always uses the manual release handle instead of the right button, and I get a warning message on the screen and the risk of breaking the window glass. OP is probably assuming that everyone who gets it correct has been in a Tesla before. But given the 2 options and how close they are together, I'd be pretty surprised if no one had gotten this correct on their first try. One of the buttons is much more visible than the other. So either OP's sample size is small enough to be uninteresting, or hyperbole. Either way, it's not data, and it's wrong to treat it as such. What it does tell us, is that this probably isn't a problem for everyone but that hardly matters to the people who can't figure out how to get out of a Model 3 right now.
- frumper 3y ago
  Data collection method: journalist seeking out personal anecdotes that match the story they want to tell.

richbell 3y ago

Claim: every single passenger in your Tesla has found the manual release without issue, so it must not be an issue. Reality: some people are not able to find the manual release handle, which is a safety issue.

earnestzombie2 3y ago
[flagged]
addandsubtract 3y ago
Reality: getting safety instructions on every flight on how to put on a life vest and pull a big red lever to open a door.
- richbell 3y ago
  People do not necessarily act rationally in emergency situations. That is why it's important to design things in a way that's obvious and avoids unexpected obstacles (e.g., the door doesn't open anymore and you need to use a secondary handle). For example, sliding doors usually have clearly marked text on them saying "in event of power loss, push to open".

nelsonic 3y ago

Same experience for us. Every guest that rides in our Tesla M3 for the first time reaches for the manual release which works every time but gives a warning. I remember getting trapped in an ICE Jaguar as a kid because the battery died ... Central locking was electric and so were the windows that was scary; parents panicking ... we had to drive to a garage and someone hooked the car up to jump leads so we could get out.

lostlogin 3y ago
This sounds like British Leyland. I had a ‘68 Triumph 2000 Mark 1 with a horn that would sound sometimes when I turned left. Neither mechanic or auto-electricians could fix it. Death glares from pedestrians were a normal part of my life.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>uses the manual release handle instead of the right button, and I get a warning message on the screen and the risk of breaking the window glass. Is there a technical limitation on why the manual release can't also mechanically slide down the window slightly when pulled to not damage the glass? Also, why did Tesla need to use two obscure looking buttons with no labels on them to open the door[1], when many cars use the same obvious leaver for both cases: pull on it lightly to engage the electronic un-lock, pull on it again with more force to engage the mechanical un-lock. So simple, so elegant. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu-tJc-BgaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu-tJc-BgaI

frumper 3y ago
Most cars have a window frame and don’t need to worry about lowering the window. There are plenty of other cars that engage the window down on the lever though, so no, it’s not a technical issue. The only issue I can think of if you just open and push the door quickly then it could cause damage and the Tesla can lower the window before it opens when you use the button option.

mbreese 3y ago

I don’t think I’ve had anyone in my M3 ever find that release switch unless I pointed it out to them. Usually people who are in my car and haven’t been in a Tesla before are so freaked out about breaking something that they just ask what button to push.

Deebs12 3y ago

I am also a M3 owner. I also had the experience of every NEW rider using the manual release unless I warned them not to. My guess is the "trapped" people are ones who are very used to using the small button, and have forgotten about the manual release and it never occurs to them since they never have to use it. I'm not sure how that's possible, but it's my guess.

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago

> every single passenger who had never been on a Tesla before always uses the manual release handle instead of the right button That sounds like a nice anti-pattern design. Be different for sake of being different.

DemocracyFTW2 3y ago

every detail of this screams "bad design"