6 ms·

Or, even better, don't accept invites from U.S. based conferences, and you will never have any unexpected issues. Best not to cross their borders at all.

by lynx23 3y ago

blueflow 3y ago
Or don't go to conferences at all, less costs for traveling, less flying (climate etc), less potential for COVID infection.
ghaff 3y ago
Hardly unique to the US. As a US citizen, I've had to cancel on business speaking invitations because I couldn't fit the visa paperwork around my travel schedule.
yarpen_z 3y ago
Great advice for any PhD student or researcher! Do you have any other valuable advice? How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect.
- azangru 3y ago
  > How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect. If by "it would have the same effect" you mean that it will be ignored, then maybe. But if you are saying that not attending international conferences is the same as not getting a job as a researcher in the first place, then I find this an exaggeration. Especially considering that one can participate in the scientific process by submitting their papers to journals, and that every country, including those in the Global South, can have their own conferences. What you may refer to is prestige. But that's a separate matter altogether.
  - Ar-Curunir 3y ago
    Have you ever participated in a research community? You’re going to be at a severe disadvantage compared to peers in the US if you’re unable to promote your work to, and network with, the leaders in your field (the majority of whom are based in the global North). Also, many of the top publishing venues in CS are conferences, and it is not uncommon for them to require in-person presentations as a condition for acceptance. So, in sum, if you want to have a scientific career, attending conferences in the US/Europe is almost a must, at least in CS.
    - azangru 3y ago
      > Have you ever participated in a research community? Yes. A little bit. Though not in CS. > You’re going to be at a severe disadvantage compared to peers in the US > ... > if you want to have a scientific career What does having a scientific career mean to you? Are there universities outside of the global North? Do people hold positions in those universities? Is there any research work happening there? Can someone get a place there without travelling around the world? If the answer to these questions is yes, then how is it not a scientific career? (I am not trying to compare the salary of a professor in a US university with one from a university in global South. I am simply curious about the blank statements "How about just give up and quit your job" or "if you want to have a scientific career").
      - Ar-Curunir 3y ago
        As somebody from the "Global South", it's ridiculous to say that the average quality of work in top universities in, say, India, is on the same level as the average quality of work in top universities, in, say, the US. This is not due to any difference in the inherent quality of the researchers, but due to (IMO) a lack of resources. This falls into two categories: The first is the lack of a high-expertise peer/mentor community. Historically most research communities have centered in US/Europe. So even getting advice and mentorship is much more difficult, and the difficulty is exacerbated if you can't travel to conferences. Even if you manage to become established in your field, if you're not travelling to conferences and networking with other top researchers, you won't be privy to new research directions and questions, won't be able to take part in collaborations on interesting research projects, and won't have as productive a career as your colleagues in the global North. This also leads to a feedback loop (your research isn't exciting → you don't get to go to conferences to participate in research conversations → your research isn't exciting, and so on). In the end, the process of doing science is a social phenomenon, and you can't sequester yourself in your own country and expect to be a good researcher working on interesting problems. The second category of resources is funding. The pool of money available for research is just much smaller in the global South, and makes certain kinds of research just impossible (think big distributed systems research, GPU-heavy ML research, etc.) So if you want to do that kind of research, you can't really stay in your home country.
- lynx23 3y ago
  You know, there is actually a world outside of the USA. Universities, research labs, companies of all kinds, and, surprise, people! This US-centric attitude is hilarious.
Xylakant 3y ago
The same applies to European conferences for essentially everyone not from Europe/US, with very few exceptions.
resolutebat 3y ago
Visa processing for third world nationals isn't much better in the EU or the UK, although at least appointment waiting times are usually not measured in years.
unmole 3y ago
The US is much better than the EU and Canada about granting visas for conferences.

Or, even better, don't accept invites from U.S. based conferences, and you will never have any unexpected issues. Best not to cross their borders at all.

by lynx23 3y ago

Or, even better, don't accept invites from U.S. based conferences, and you will never have any unexpected issues. Best not to cross their borders at all.

blueflow 3y ago

Or don't go to conferences at all, less costs for traveling, less flying (climate etc), less potential for COVID infection.

ghaff 3y ago

Hardly unique to the US. As a US citizen, I've had to cancel on business speaking invitations because I couldn't fit the visa paperwork around my travel schedule.

yarpen_z 3y ago

Great advice for any PhD student or researcher! Do you have any other valuable advice? How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect.

azangru 3y ago
> How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect. If by "it would have the same effect" you mean that it will be ignored, then maybe. But if you are saying that not attending international conferences is the same as not getting a job as a researcher in the first place, then I find this an exaggeration. Especially considering that one can participate in the scientific process by submitting their papers to journals, and that every country, including those in the Global South, can have their own conferences. What you may refer to is prestige. But that's a separate matter altogether.
- Ar-Curunir 3y ago
  Have you ever participated in a research community? You’re going to be at a severe disadvantage compared to peers in the US if you’re unable to promote your work to, and network with, the leaders in your field (the majority of whom are based in the global North). Also, many of the top publishing venues in CS are conferences, and it is not uncommon for them to require in-person presentations as a condition for acceptance. So, in sum, if you want to have a scientific career, attending conferences in the US/Europe is almost a must, at least in CS.
  - azangru 3y ago
    > Have you ever participated in a research community? Yes. A little bit. Though not in CS. > You’re going to be at a severe disadvantage compared to peers in the US > ... > if you want to have a scientific career What does having a scientific career mean to you? Are there universities outside of the global North? Do people hold positions in those universities? Is there any research work happening there? Can someone get a place there without travelling around the world? If the answer to these questions is yes, then how is it not a scientific career? (I am not trying to compare the salary of a professor in a US university with one from a university in global South. I am simply curious about the blank statements "How about just give up and quit your job" or "if you want to have a scientific career").
    - Ar-Curunir 3y ago
      As somebody from the "Global South", it's ridiculous to say that the average quality of work in top universities in, say, India, is on the same level as the average quality of work in top universities, in, say, the US. This is not due to any difference in the inherent quality of the researchers, but due to (IMO) a lack of resources. This falls into two categories: The first is the lack of a high-expertise peer/mentor community. Historically most research communities have centered in US/Europe. So even getting advice and mentorship is much more difficult, and the difficulty is exacerbated if you can't travel to conferences. Even if you manage to become established in your field, if you're not travelling to conferences and networking with other top researchers, you won't be privy to new research directions and questions, won't be able to take part in collaborations on interesting research projects, and won't have as productive a career as your colleagues in the global North. This also leads to a feedback loop (your research isn't exciting → you don't get to go to conferences to participate in research conversations → your research isn't exciting, and so on). In the end, the process of doing science is a social phenomenon, and you can't sequester yourself in your own country and expect to be a good researcher working on interesting problems. The second category of resources is funding. The pool of money available for research is just much smaller in the global South, and makes certain kinds of research just impossible (think big distributed systems research, GPU-heavy ML research, etc.) So if you want to do that kind of research, you can't really stay in your home country.
lynx23 3y ago
You know, there is actually a world outside of the USA. Universities, research labs, companies of all kinds, and, surprise, people! This US-centric attitude is hilarious.

Xylakant 3y ago

The same applies to European conferences for essentially everyone not from Europe/US, with very few exceptions.

resolutebat 3y ago

Visa processing for third world nationals isn't much better in the EU or the UK, although at least appointment waiting times are usually not measured in years.

unmole 3y ago

The US is much better than the EU and Canada about granting visas for conferences.