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What has evolved when it cannot evolve beyond caste system? What has been done to Buddhism in India is inflammatory, not my take. The story of extinction of Bu

by iamshs 3y ago

What has evolved when it cannot evolve beyond caste system? What has been done to Buddhism in India is inflammatory, not my take. The story of extinction of Buddhism is told proudly by Hindu seers too. So "absorbing stuff" is weird way to put it.

rhuru 3y ago
Let us see what Amebedkar says about anhilation of Buddhism from India. > Such was the slaughter of the Buddhist priesthood perpetrated by the Islamic invaders. The axe was struck at the very root. For by killing the Buddhist priesthood Islam killed Buddhism. This was the greatest disaster that befell the religion of Buddha in India. Religion like any other ideololgy can be attained only by propaganda. If propoganda fails, religion must disappear. The priestly class, however detestable it may be, is necessary to the sustenance of religion. For it is by its propoganda that religion is kept up. Without the priestly class religion must disappear. The sword of Islam fell heavily upon the priestly class. It perished or it fled outside India. Nobody remained to keep the flame of Buddhism burning.
- iamshs 3y ago
  Very brave to selectively quote Ambedkar, especially on Buddhism and Hinduism. Let me enlighten you with his own quotes: "History of India before the Muslim invasions is the history of a mortal conflict between Brahmanism and Buddhism" "No wonder if Pushyamitra who as a Samvedi Brahmin was the first to conceive the passion to end the degradation of the Brahmin by destroying the Buddhist state..." "By this proclamation Pushyamitra set a price of 100 gold pieces on the head of every Buddhist monk"
  - eklavya 3y ago
    Are you implying pushyamitra was driven by Hinduism to kill Buddhists?
    - rhuru 3y ago
      Note that the claim that Hindus "absorbed" Buddhism and also "put bounty on buddhist's head" is not consistent with each other, only one can be true.
  - nuc1e0n 3y ago
    And in turn the Islamic Mughal Empire of the subcontinent that destroyed this Buddhist priesthood was in turn replaced by that of the British. Indians still largely follow British ways even up to today. What do Indians themselves consider better? I don't know.
  - throwaway161718 3y ago
    Kindness. You carry hurt in you. Try not to carry that burden.
  - never_inline 3y ago
    > By this proclamation Pushyamitra set a price of 100 gold pieces on the head of every Buddhist monk This is not historically verified I think.
rhuru 3y ago
The concept of caste has evolved in Hinduism over time. The roots of caste system are in teh concept of Varna and Varna system has its roots in Sankhya. In modern India, the secular law gives special status to castes that have violence potential and hence has solidified its existence and yet Hinduism has already evolved the concept of caste to make it ever more useful to society.
eklavya 3y ago
You seem to have an axe to grind. If you are intellectually interested in the topic, there is no shortage of material on internet and YouTube.
morbidious 3y ago
The caste was never a Hindu concept. If you said varna or jati, it would have made more sense. Caste was introduced by the British because they wanted to homogenize the different heterogeneous communities in India into one structured classification. Varna is occupation and jati is tribe. Each tribe had people with different occupations who supported the village life through activities of their professions. Inter-jati marriages were allowed, and so were inter-varna marriages. There was no discrimination within jatis, in fact, they all supported each other for the sustenance of their jati. Untouchability was present in some cases, but it was between 2 jatis. Meaning, one jati would consider the other jati as untouchable. However, it was not between varnas. This system became more rigid after British started classifying people into different castes, providing benefits to some and taking away some from others, and that's how the caste system evolved into what it was.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > There was no discrimination within jatis, in fact, they all supported each other for the sustenance of their jati. While I do not doubt the rest of your comment, I have a hard time believing this. In my experience, humans are tribal animals, and are constantly jockeying for status, as individuals and tribes (even constantly moving in and out of multiple tribes). The British may have formalized/utilized and exacerbated things, but I imagine any group of humans anywhere is always dividing and subdividing into various tribes for various purposes. The simplest being to show you are better than other potential mates in order to attract your preferred mate.
  - morbidious 3y ago
    If there was discrimination, there would not have been intermarriages. People switches profession to suit their needs. Buddhist texts themselves narrate that jatis were not tied to any particular profession. There are examples of a Kshatriya warrior working successively as a potter, basket-maker, reed-worker, garland-maker, etc; and a Vaishya cook working as a tailor or potter without social push-back. The rigidity of the varna-jati system started after the Mughal invasions, due to their exploitative taxation. It made the fluid system more rigid in matters of sharing food and marriages, and disintegrated due to opportunism and social stratification. The British raised frustration several times that Indians did not know their caste, and had to be coached for their census forms. This was because varna-jati was not considered important by the Indians of that time.

by iamshs 3y ago

rhuru 3y ago

Let us see what Amebedkar says about anhilation of Buddhism from India. > Such was the slaughter of the Buddhist priesthood perpetrated by the Islamic invaders. The axe was struck at the very root. For by killing the Buddhist priesthood Islam killed Buddhism. This was the greatest disaster that befell the religion of Buddha in India. Religion like any other ideololgy can be attained only by propaganda. If propoganda fails, religion must disappear. The priestly class, however detestable it may be, is necessary to the sustenance of religion. For it is by its propoganda that religion is kept up. Without the priestly class religion must disappear. The sword of Islam fell heavily upon the priestly class. It perished or it fled outside India. Nobody remained to keep the flame of Buddhism burning.

iamshs 3y ago
Very brave to selectively quote Ambedkar, especially on Buddhism and Hinduism. Let me enlighten you with his own quotes: "History of India before the Muslim invasions is the history of a mortal conflict between Brahmanism and Buddhism" "No wonder if Pushyamitra who as a Samvedi Brahmin was the first to conceive the passion to end the degradation of the Brahmin by destroying the Buddhist state..." "By this proclamation Pushyamitra set a price of 100 gold pieces on the head of every Buddhist monk"
- eklavya 3y ago
  Are you implying pushyamitra was driven by Hinduism to kill Buddhists?
  - rhuru 3y ago
    Note that the claim that Hindus "absorbed" Buddhism and also "put bounty on buddhist's head" is not consistent with each other, only one can be true.
- nuc1e0n 3y ago
  And in turn the Islamic Mughal Empire of the subcontinent that destroyed this Buddhist priesthood was in turn replaced by that of the British. Indians still largely follow British ways even up to today. What do Indians themselves consider better? I don't know.
- throwaway161718 3y ago
  Kindness. You carry hurt in you. Try not to carry that burden.
- never_inline 3y ago
  > By this proclamation Pushyamitra set a price of 100 gold pieces on the head of every Buddhist monk This is not historically verified I think.

rhuru 3y ago

The concept of caste has evolved in Hinduism over time. The roots of caste system are in teh concept of Varna and Varna system has its roots in Sankhya. In modern India, the secular law gives special status to castes that have violence potential and hence has solidified its existence and yet Hinduism has already evolved the concept of caste to make it ever more useful to society.

eklavya 3y ago

You seem to have an axe to grind. If you are intellectually interested in the topic, there is no shortage of material on internet and YouTube.

morbidious 3y ago

The caste was never a Hindu concept. If you said varna or jati, it would have made more sense. Caste was introduced by the British because they wanted to homogenize the different heterogeneous communities in India into one structured classification. Varna is occupation and jati is tribe. Each tribe had people with different occupations who supported the village life through activities of their professions. Inter-jati marriages were allowed, and so were inter-varna marriages. There was no discrimination within jatis, in fact, they all supported each other for the sustenance of their jati. Untouchability was present in some cases, but it was between 2 jatis. Meaning, one jati would consider the other jati as untouchable. However, it was not between varnas. This system became more rigid after British started classifying people into different castes, providing benefits to some and taking away some from others, and that's how the caste system evolved into what it was.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
> There was no discrimination within jatis, in fact, they all supported each other for the sustenance of their jati. While I do not doubt the rest of your comment, I have a hard time believing this. In my experience, humans are tribal animals, and are constantly jockeying for status, as individuals and tribes (even constantly moving in and out of multiple tribes). The British may have formalized/utilized and exacerbated things, but I imagine any group of humans anywhere is always dividing and subdividing into various tribes for various purposes. The simplest being to show you are better than other potential mates in order to attract your preferred mate.
- morbidious 3y ago
  If there was discrimination, there would not have been intermarriages. People switches profession to suit their needs. Buddhist texts themselves narrate that jatis were not tied to any particular profession. There are examples of a Kshatriya warrior working successively as a potter, basket-maker, reed-worker, garland-maker, etc; and a Vaishya cook working as a tailor or potter without social push-back. The rigidity of the varna-jati system started after the Mughal invasions, due to their exploitative taxation. It made the fluid system more rigid in matters of sharing food and marriages, and disintegrated due to opportunism and social stratification. The British raised frustration several times that Indians did not know their caste, and had to be coached for their census forms. This was because varna-jati was not considered important by the Indians of that time.