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The brain is absolutely physical. > A lot of what is in the brain, is not actually to be found in the brain, or by studying it materially. You are talking abo

by otikik 3y ago

The brain is absolutely physical. > A lot of what is in the brain, is not actually to be found in the brain, or by studying it materially. You are talking about consciousness (and perhaps the non-conscious processing that the brain does as well). That is indeed a non-physical phenomenon, but it still has physical underpinnings. > The "formwork" that formed it, is lost in evolutionary time. You can't lose something that you never had in the first place :). It will take that as a figure of speech. The good news are: we are very familiar with some things that "exist" but don't have a physical presence. On this forum, "software" is the most obvious one. "Math" is probably the second. There's many others, like all the emotions, entropy, and so forth. We can, to a certain degree, reverse-engineer some of these processes by looking at the physical imprint that they leave. It's true that we never get a full picture - the same way that just looking at the source code might not give you a good idea of how the RAM will look like when the program is executing. But it can give you some insight. And then, if you are lucky, you may be able to fill in the gaps. The bad news: this is the most imbricated and complex piece of "code" that the humanity has ever faced. Our brains might simply not be capable of understanding their own complexity by themselves. Most of us have a "cache" of 7 items, after all. Barely good enough to swing to the next tree branch. But then again some good news: the complexity is definitely not infinite- just very big. And we keep improving our tools. The same way some of them expand the limits of what we can physically do with our bodies, some of them expand what we can mentally do with our brains. Wether or not that will be enough for us to understand ourselves, to a certain definition of "understand", is still up in the air as far as I'm concerned. I'm agnostic about it.

ajani 3y ago
"The brain" is made up of matter, yes. "The brain" is not physical like columns or iron. Those are simple objects. The kind physics likes to deal with. Things that are easily measured to describe its properties quantitatively and the relations of these properties as a placeholder for qualitative aspects (equations). Physics can't deal with the brain. No equation can be written. If a bud's seeds were to sprout in place, instead of in the ground, you would have every single ancestor plant in a very long chain. Every brain is the result of this kind of structure. A mother buds and sprouts a new human. If the umbilical cords remain attached, we have a very similar kind of long chain of human brains. Not like any other physical object. Physics is inadequate at studying "the brain". So, "the brain" is not a physical object.
- otikik 3y ago
  > Physics can't deal with the brain. No equation can be written. There are many many many physics simulations out there that cannot be "written with an equation". Climate Modelling, for example. You cannot write a single equation to model all that. You need a big complex piece of software, made of many equations, a lot of hardware, and a lot of processing time. Any of those was simply inconceivable mere decades ago. It's possible that it's as you say, and the brain is inscrutable if we attack the problem from the physics point of view alone. I think that you may be right. With what we have now. But decades from now? I'm not so sure.
  - ajani 3y ago
    All climate models are based on mathematical physics models. I don't know the specifics, so I asked chatGPT and here is what it said: ''' Climate modeling is a multifaceted field rooted in physics that relies on a complex set of equations to describe various atmospheric, oceanic, and terrestrial processes. Here's an overview of the key equations that form the foundation of climate models: Navier-Stokes Equations: Governing the flow of fluids like the atmosphere and oceans, these equations capture how the velocity of a fluid changes over time. Radiative Transfer Equations: Essential for understanding how sunlight and other forms of radiation interact with the atmosphere, including scattering, absorption, and emission. Energy Balance Models: These equations describe the balance between incoming solar energy and outgoing heat, fundamental for capturing the planet's energy dynamics. Equations of State: Linking density, pressure, and temperature, these equations are critical for understanding the behavior of the atmosphere and ocean. Continuity Equations: Representing the conservation of mass in the atmosphere and oceans. Moist Processes Equations: Capturing phase changes between water vapor, liquid water, and ice, along with latent heat exchange. Boundary Layer Equations: Describing the complex dynamics near Earth's surface where the atmosphere interacts with the land or ocean. Chemical and Aerosol Equations: Governing the reactions and interactions between different chemical species and particles, which can affect both weather and climate. Sea Ice and Glacial Equations: Modeling the flow and melting of ice, essential for understanding the cryosphere. These equations are solved numerically using computer algorithms, often over a grid representing the Earth's surface and atmosphere. Together, they form an interconnected system that allows scientists to simulate and analyze the climate system's behavior. This intricate mathematical framework underscores how the study of climate is fundamentally rooted in mathematical and physical principles. ''' There are no such equations for the brain.

by otikik 3y ago

ajani 3y ago

"The brain" is made up of matter, yes. "The brain" is not physical like columns or iron. Those are simple objects. The kind physics likes to deal with. Things that are easily measured to describe its properties quantitatively and the relations of these properties as a placeholder for qualitative aspects (equations). Physics can't deal with the brain. No equation can be written. If a bud's seeds were to sprout in place, instead of in the ground, you would have every single ancestor plant in a very long chain. Every brain is the result of this kind of structure. A mother buds and sprouts a new human. If the umbilical cords remain attached, we have a very similar kind of long chain of human brains. Not like any other physical object. Physics is inadequate at studying "the brain". So, "the brain" is not a physical object.

otikik 3y ago
> Physics can't deal with the brain. No equation can be written. There are many many many physics simulations out there that cannot be "written with an equation". Climate Modelling, for example. You cannot write a single equation to model all that. You need a big complex piece of software, made of many equations, a lot of hardware, and a lot of processing time. Any of those was simply inconceivable mere decades ago. It's possible that it's as you say, and the brain is inscrutable if we attack the problem from the physics point of view alone. I think that you may be right. With what we have now. But decades from now? I'm not so sure.
- ajani 3y ago
  All climate models are based on mathematical physics models. I don't know the specifics, so I asked chatGPT and here is what it said: ''' Climate modeling is a multifaceted field rooted in physics that relies on a complex set of equations to describe various atmospheric, oceanic, and terrestrial processes. Here's an overview of the key equations that form the foundation of climate models: Navier-Stokes Equations: Governing the flow of fluids like the atmosphere and oceans, these equations capture how the velocity of a fluid changes over time. Radiative Transfer Equations: Essential for understanding how sunlight and other forms of radiation interact with the atmosphere, including scattering, absorption, and emission. Energy Balance Models: These equations describe the balance between incoming solar energy and outgoing heat, fundamental for capturing the planet's energy dynamics. Equations of State: Linking density, pressure, and temperature, these equations are critical for understanding the behavior of the atmosphere and ocean. Continuity Equations: Representing the conservation of mass in the atmosphere and oceans. Moist Processes Equations: Capturing phase changes between water vapor, liquid water, and ice, along with latent heat exchange. Boundary Layer Equations: Describing the complex dynamics near Earth's surface where the atmosphere interacts with the land or ocean. Chemical and Aerosol Equations: Governing the reactions and interactions between different chemical species and particles, which can affect both weather and climate. Sea Ice and Glacial Equations: Modeling the flow and melting of ice, essential for understanding the cryosphere. These equations are solved numerically using computer algorithms, often over a grid representing the Earth's surface and atmosphere. Together, they form an interconnected system that allows scientists to simulate and analyze the climate system's behavior. This intricate mathematical framework underscores how the study of climate is fundamentally rooted in mathematical and physical principles. ''' There are no such equations for the brain.